Are we being played ?

[Observer II]

The more information I'm gathering from various youtube pods; the more I think we need to be concerned about Ukraine.   There's currently a tsunami of emotion in support of the Ukrainians, the ordinary people of whom we can all have sympathy.  But when we start to cut through the liberal interventionist media at the antics and true nature of the Salinski Gov; we find it operates on the same Oligarch led basis as the Russians, and is just as corrupt.   Salinski was the creation of a Ukrainian Oligarch, who promoted him through a TV show as a non corrupt PM,  this later turned into reality when he was later elected;  but the Oligarch was and is pulling the strings.   This Oligarch (Kormorski ?) had funded the Clinton Foundation and had links with US Democrats, prior to the pro-western coup; which allegedly was engineered by the US State Dept and CIA, to destabilise Russia and create the very circumstances we are now seeing.   Salinski has proved to be a master of propaganda, and has attempted to draw in intervention by NATO, EG. by flagging up the risk to nuclear energy plants from Russian fire, when that's clearly not in the Russian interest.  We've now heard a senile Biden make threats about the use of chemical and biological weapons, being a red line for intervention.  What they don't say, is that Ukraine controls chemical and bio-labs, making the a false flag incident a possibility. If NATO makes any move to interfer in Ukraine or attack Russian assets,  the Russian will launch it's extensive armoury of tactical nuclear missiles,  NATO will be left with a strategic response, then we all go up in smoke.   Time to calm everything down methinks,  stop the bellicose rhetoric of western politicians,  and engage in some adult negotiations.  The solution is clear to me,  accept the Putin demands, but set up a mutually agreed line of neutral States between NATO and Russia, with both sides signing off on that neutrality; the longer this goes on, the more likely things are bound to go wrong and we'll all be kissing our R-s goodbye.     💀

[Latchford Locks]

11 hours ago, Observer II said:

The more information I'm gathering from various youtube pods; the more I think we need to be concerned about Ukraine.   There's currently a tsunami of emotion in support of the Ukrainians, the ordinary people of whom we can all have sympathy.  But when we start to cut through the liberal interventionist media at the antics and true nature of the Salinski Gov; we find it operates on the same Oligarch led basis as the Russians, and is just as corrupt.   Salinski was the creation of a Ukrainian Oligarch, who promoted him through a TV show as a non corrupt PM,  this later turned into reality when he was later elected;  but the Oligarch was and is pulling the strings.   This Oligarch (Kormorski ?) had funded the Clinton Foundation and had links with US Democrats, prior to the pro-western coup; which allegedly was engineered by the US State Dept and CIA, to destabilise Russia and create the very circumstances we are now seeing.   Salinski has proved to be a master of propaganda, and has attempted to draw in intervention by NATO, EG. by flagging up the risk to nuclear energy plants from Russian fire, when that's clearly not in the Russian interest.  We've now heard a senile Biden make threats about the use of chemical and biological weapons, being a red line for intervention.  What they don't say, is that Ukraine controls chemical and bio-labs, making the a false flag incident a possibility. If NATO makes any move to interfer in Ukraine or attack Russian assets,  the Russian will launch it's extensive armoury of tactical nuclear missiles,  NATO will be left with a strategic response, then we all go up in smoke.   Time to calm everything down methinks,  stop the bellicose rhetoric of western politicians,  and engage in some adult negotiations.  The solution is clear to me,  accept the Putin demands, but set up a mutually agreed line of neutral States between NATO and Russia, with both sides signing off on that neutrality; the longer this goes on, the more likely things are bound to go wrong and we'll all be kissing our R-s goodbye.     💀

Nice bit of relaxing Sunday morning reading

Cheers Obs 🥴

[Confused52]

On 3/26/2022 at 11:16 PM, Observer II said:

The more information I'm gathering from various youtube pods; the more I think we need to be concerned about Ukraine.   There's currently a tsunami of emotion in support of the Ukrainians, the ordinary people of whom we can all have sympathy.  ..

...  the longer this goes on, the more likely things are bound to go wrong and we'll all be kissing our R-s goodbye.     💀

I suggest you become a more discerning viewer of You Tube

[Observer II]

I am, that's why I don't swallow what we're being fed by our media.    

[Confused52]

28 minutes ago, Observer II said:

I am, that's why I don't swallow what we're being fed by our media.    

Bold, well I hope you are not relying on that buffoon Taylor.

[Observer II]

There's a spread of opinion from both right and left, that challenges the msm; which clearly doesn't want to delve into the past of Salinski or Hunter Biden and any involvments by the US State Dept under Clinton or the CIA - it's a can of worms, and no one wants to open it.     

[Observer II]

As the msm continue to promote Zalenski for sainthood;  and he is being held as a symbol of democracy against authoritarian aggression;  it should be noted that he has banned all opposition parties in Ukraine and taken over the media as his personal mouthpiece.  In effect, he's a mini Putin, with little difference between their regimes; so nothing for us to risk a nuclear war over.    😠

[Confused52]

Our problem is not about Zelensky, it is about Putin. Remember Russia thinks it is NOT at war but has a government that only got in by rigging the elections using electronic ballot box stuffing. It has introduced censorship contrary to the Russian Federation Constitution, which forbids censorship and doesn't include any ability to make laws to permit it. The Russian government is proven by its actions to lie and has threatened to use nuclear weapons on the West and later said it didn't mean it! Zelensky is not the problem and you should be aware that the political parties that were banned were those that support ties to the Russian Federation (aka traitors). You should also consider that Ukraine is under Martial Law and despite that there appears to be more press freedom than in the Russian Federation which is not at war but is threatening to nuke unfriendly, and not actually belligerent, states.

[Observer II]

Sorry, but they're both cut from the same cloth imo; both corrupt and risking a nuclear war.   Not forgetting of course the other villain of the peace - the USA, who engineered the coup which started this madness in the first place.    

[Confused52]

3 hours ago, Observer II said:

Sorry, but they're both cut from the same cloth imo; both corrupt and risking a nuclear war.   Not forgetting of course the other villain of the peace - the USA, who engineered the coup which started this madness in the first place.    

As to the first sentence you are free to have any opinion you like but the second sentence is nonsense. The Maiden revolution was caused by the pressure Putin put on Yanukovich to move away from the EU which was what the public had been told was fixed policy. The unrest was not instigated by the US, Obama praised his election in fact. Oh and it wasn't a coup. He was deposed by the Parliament with a slightly improper majority but by then he had actually fled the country ( to Russia of course) and had to be replaced anyway. Zelensky was not the next presidency, that was Poroshenko.

[Observer II]

The CIA had been active in Ukraine throughout, stirring the brown stuff; as they recently tried in Kazakstan, which didn't work.    A coup is the the forced removal of an existing authority, and I can remember the shooting in the streets of Kiev, unless that was made up by the BBC news !    Your right about Poroshenko of course,  and Zelensky accused all his predecessors of being corrupt, or possibly more corrupt than him !     😉

[Confused52]

2 hours ago, Observer II said:

The CIA had been active in Ukraine throughout, stirring the brown stuff; as they recently tried in Kazakstan, which didn't work.    A coup is the the forced removal of an existing authority, and I can remember the shooting in the streets of Kiev, unless that was made up by the BBC news !    Your right about Poroshenko of course,  and Zelensky accused all his predecessors of being corrupt, or possibly more corrupt than him !     😉

Well now, the only mention of the CIA is in articles by or about Russian supporting folks. They come across as extending the known facts about Nuland and the EU comments to flights of fantasy. I don't take any of that stuff seriously. The conversations were incepted and leaked by the Russians too. Yes there was shooting at the Square, 100 were killed, mostly shot by the Police on the orders of Yanukovich, indeed that was the reason that he knew he had to leave! The brown stuff was demonstrably stirred by the Russians, as it is so often. 

There is ample evidence that the Russian government either lie or contradict themselves on everything. The more outrageous the better as far as they are concerned. Their basic strategy is FUD; Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. 

[Observer II]

😄 Clearly your taken in by the arrogance and hypocracy of the West. The Yanks have continued the cold war beyond the Soviet collapse in 1990, right up to the borders of Russia  and clearly won't be happy until they reach Moscow; which means a nuclear war is inevitable. 

[Confused52]

9 hours ago, Observer II said:

😄 Clearly your taken in by the arrogance and hypocracy of the West. The Yanks have continued the cold war beyond the Soviet collapse in 1990, right up to the borders of Russia  and clearly won't be happy until they reach Moscow; which means a nuclear war is inevitable. 

You repeat the Russian line pure and simple. If you talk to Poles, Latvians and Finns you find that they want nothing more than for Russia to stay out of their business. The Poles joined NATO to stop Russian aggression and those in the Baltics would be rather pleased if the Russians could understand that they don't have the right to pop into their countries and capture public servants just to show that Russia is in control. NATO has been spending less as the threat diminished because it really is a defensive alliance. Russia has been spending more because it isn't about defence. Russia is a member of the United Nations and the charter requires all nations wherever they are and however small they are to have their borders when they joined the UN respected by other members. Ukraine was a voluntary member of the USSR and it decided to secede jointly with Belarus and the Russian Federation. Yes, the decision to split off Ukraine was agreed by the Russian Federation itself not the Soviet Union, Gorbachev just did what he was told. NATO expanded because the neighbours of Russia feel threatened by it not because they were coerced to do so by the Americans. What Russians don't get is that their neighbours hate them because of what she does and has done and says it will do , not because someone else is directing them. Russians don't get it because ever since the days of the Tsar they have had a national sense of grievance where everything is blamed on an evil outsider; it is that national psyche which Putin has captured. 

 

[Observer II]

NATO spends less ?   The USA leads NATO and spends more on defence than any other Country in the World, indeed it was the spending race that eventually crippled the Soviet Union (starwars etc), although Trump did have a point when he complained of Europe not paying their way, whilst sheltering under the US nuclear umbrella.   NATO is a defensive organisation ?   That's what it was set up to be, to counter a Soviet threat in Europe, but has since morphed into the self made arbiter of a new world order dictated by the West,  poking its nose and weapons into Serbia, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria.  Russia has an history of invasions by the West - Teutonic Knights, Poles, Sweden, France, US/UK/Japan and Germany and suffered a price in casualties that dwarfs anything in the West.  So that national paranoia is based on history and the current pressures by the West,  a paranoia shared by the US who still operate the Monroe Doctrine, which led to the Cuban missile crisis - in other words, don't do as we do, do as we say.   Pre 1947 none of this would be a concern for us (the UK), but since the advent of nuclear weapons, poking the bear is no longer a game, but a matter of dicing with the end of humanity in a nuclear showdown, and that's why we should all stand down, cut the hysterical rhetoric and start acting like grown ups.    😠

[Confused52]

Finland and Sweden now serious about joining NATO because they feel threatened by Russia. The Russian government continues to threaten any state that chooses to do anything that Russia does not find in its interest, yet you criticise the Monroe Doctrine and support Russia's paranoid behaviour. Russia's behaviour is such that under Putin there is strong chance they will start a nuclear war just to show Russia can do it. They are totally out of control.

[Observer II]

No, I criticise the hypocracy of the USA, who maintain the Monroe doctrine whilst doing everything to increase Russian paranoia by encroaching on their back yard.   Finland and Sweden are merely making themselves targets in any future nuclear war, not that it makes a big difference, probably just means a quicker end.  Just what does the term "out of control" mean ?   Out of control by the US world hegemony ?    The idea that there is some kind of world order set and dictated by the US ?   Well there are Countries that resent this attempt at global dictatorship and are clearly bent on resisting it.   So either the West start to reign in their approach or we will indeed witness global nuclear destruction, in which no one wins and we all lose.     💀

[Confused52]

Out of control means acting contrary to their own constitution and deliberately provoking conflict since 2013. Illegal actions in the UK included. They have rigged their own elections, as well as Ukraine's elections they; have changed the Constitution to make Putin unaccountable in any way to the nation he purports to serve. They have in effect recreated Tsarist Russia and the nation now serves Putin. It is nothing to do with the US. Putin's behaviour is nothing to do with the West it is about glorifying his image of Russia and we are all in danger from the megalomaniac. 

[Observer II]

😄  Suggest you listen to Prof Mearsheimer ( a US political scientist)  for a rational view on the situation.   😑

[Confused52]

Why, because he is in your echo chamber. You see my point was about Russia and your response isn't. My Russian colleagues were complaining and worried about Putin well before the events in Ukraine in fact. So worried they left and got jobs in Germany instead.

[Observer II]

No, because he presents a rational picture that cuts through the usual hysterics that you seem to have adopted.