Cheap Labour?

[Bazj]

seems some Labour MP has accused Tesco and Next of using Eastern European workers as cheap labour; undercutting their British counterparts...... Tesco & Next of course deny this saying that they pay their Polish agency staff the same as their UK agency staff...

 

Do we believe them and should they not be employing British people to work in their British stores and warehouses?

[Lt Kije]

They should employ people are suitable, I do not think Tesco would employ illegal immigrants to be fair.

[Davy51]

You do have to wonder at the thinking behind a government that will allow its own work force to be displaced by cheap labour from abroad only to have to pay benefits to the newly unemployed Brits. 

I am sure some one is doing very nicely out of the shambles though.

[Bazj]

They should employ people are suitable, I do not think Tesco would employ illegal immigrants to be fair.

 

who said anything about illegal immigrants? I said Eastern Europeans not illegals because they can freely come here and take British jobs just like our unemployed can go over there and take their £1.00 an hour jobs.... that's the fairness of the EU for you!!

 

If they want a level playing field they should do something useful like making the minimum wage the same in EVERY European country.... can't see that happening though because that would be in the UK's favour!!

[Lt Kije]

If that is the case Baz, you have to ask why are the Eastern Europeans more suitable for work. If they have a better work ethic, that means we need to sort it out. One way to do it would be to make our home grown work force more employable, the wrong way to do it would be to stop employers having the choice.

[Bazj]

How do you make our workforce more employable for unskilled low paid work?

 

It is pretty obvious that employers are using Eastern Europeans to do jobs for minimum wage that UK staff would require more money for. The right way would be to stop this mass influx of unskilled labour and let UK workers do the works instead.

 

It is a myth that British workers do not want to work; pedalled by those that are responsible and those who gain from the cheap labour pool made available by the EU open borders nonsense

 

[Lt Kije]

It's the companies that set the wage Baz, perhaps then we should higher the minimum wage, be careful !!!

[inky pete]

Minimum wage is all very well, and at it's current level is fine for an unskilled job.

 

But warehouse and supermarket jobs are often anti-social hours working night shifts etc. A UK worker would traditionally expect a shift premium of somewhere between 20 and 33% for working nights and weekends - many of these companies are now just offering minimum wage with no shift uplift at all for working permanent nights.

 

Maybe the answer is to have legal minimum shift uplifts alongside the basic minimum wage per hour for working nights, earlies, lates, weekends or bank holidays.

[observer]

Having discussed this with a Polish "immigrant" computer technician; she complained of being paid less than an English person would be paid; but was still relatively happy that she was earning a lot more than she could in Poland. btw. she banks her money back in Poland - higher rates of interest - not daft eh?! Noticed also, that the Poles seem more than happy to walk (actually they march!) or bike it (always in single file!) to shift work at 5am, question is, would our young folk get out of bed to do it? Next question is, have our young folk got the reading, writing and basic arithmetic skills to pass an interview - a recent report on Army intakes indicated that around 40% of recruits had skill levels in the three R's no higher than an eleven year old? This mess has been years, even decades, in the making; and will take decades to sort out - assuming the requisite political will is even there.

[Lt Kije]

But you would force employers to take people on who are not suited for most of the jobs, i.e. In the three R's

[Bazj]

But you would force employers to take people on who are not suited for most of the jobs, i.e. In the three R's

 

so how did you get your job then?

 

 

[Lt Kije]

By being a skilled engineer,

[observer]

Your hard work at times Kije -  the point being made, is that we have an under-educated (potential) indigenous workforce, which means we're totally incapable of meeting the challenges of global competition in the future; this implies even more immigration by the importation of high skilled foreign labour. The irony of course being, many of these "foreigners" will have been educated at UK universities - but probably not in the performing arts or media studies!

[Lt Kije]

But in the short to middle term Obs, by your own admission we will have to import labour, I do agree that we should sort out our own education system, and if we do, our own work force might get the jobs.

 

So stop whining about immigration, you just stated its needed at the moment and start whining about education!!!

[observer]

As you should know, I whine about everything! The problem is Kije, it's not just in the short to medium term; the Polish girl I spoke to, intends to settle HERE permanently, as do most of her Polish friends; who are now starting families and consuming our public services. The EU free movement of labour treaty, doesn't impose any time limits on residency. Likewise, non-EU immigrants, skilled or un-skilled, and foreign students are not having their time limited visa conditions enforced, so they melt permanently into our society. Then the "illegals", who have been apprehended, and gone on to appeal for asylum, can be here for over a decade, with the UKBF backlog. It's ironic but not surprising, that the Labour Employment spokesman, has criticised Tesco et al, for employing foreign labour; when it was a Labour Government that failed an indigenous generation, by dumbing down our education system and not producing the skills required for the future. Then to add insult to injury, kicked the doors wide open to allow EU immigration and failed to tackle non-EU immigration. As I said, this mess has been decades in the making, largely because our political parties are incapable of thinking, let alone planning, beyond the next election; and their thinking is totally focused on winning elections not the long term national interest.

[Bazj]

One politician said on 5 live today that many of the problems were being caused by the reliance on agencies and the relaxation of the rules governing them by the EU.

 

Many Poles and other Eastern Europeans who come here may well have other skills (Nurse, electrician, plumber, builder etc) and yet they will sign on with these agencies to come and do the unskilled jobs like fruit picking, warehouse work etc. because it gets them over here on more money than they would get at home in the relevant professions. Once here, they can start to look for work more suited to their skills and with a UK address, it makes them more attractive to potential employers...

 

This then leaves the unskilled jobs free for more agency workers to occupy.... a never ending cycle

[Lt Kije]

Fruit picking jobs like grape picking jobs in France have been done by cheap foreign labour for years Long before the introduction of the minimum wage.

[Bazj]

Fruit picking jobs like grape picking jobs in France have been done by cheap foreign labour for years Long before the introduction of the minimum wage.

 

picking a minority item again Kije? what about the low skilled jobs that are taken in Warrington in warehouses, shops and hotels? I worked in a hotel when I first left school.... is that kind of job open to kids now or are they only open to Agency Polish? I worked in Woolston making pasta meals after that.... the company I worked for back then employs countless Poles now. B&Q employ Lithuanian delivery drivers... I've had two kitchens delivered in the past 5 months and both times they were delivered by Eastern European drivers and one even had an Eastern European drivers mate.... why can't these jobs be given to British workers?

 

and don't give me the usual crap about our unemployed not wanting the work.... that is just a lie!

[observer]

Apparently today is the UN day of "the rights of indigenous peoples" - perhaps we could appeal to them?!

[Bazj]

I'm sure that the EU would have some directive or other which meant we couldn't because it would discriminate against migrants!

[Lt Kije]

Apparently today is the UN day of "the rights of indigenous peoples" - perhaps we could appeal to them?!

 

Indigenous Obs,

 

Did our ancestors not kill of the Picts who were the indigenous people

[observer]

Thought you might go off on this tack. Fact is, if you really want to go back in time, with the exception of central Africa, there are no "indigenous" populations elsewhere in the world, they all migrated from Africa. However, for the purposes of this argument, I think anything up to and including 1066, should suffice as "indigenous" in the UK !

[Dizzy]

I really don't get it anymore.

All this talk about the problem being down to our so called 'failing' education system and how it needs to be improved and yet there are already plenty of our own well educated kids leaving school/college/etc with really good results who simply can't get jobs.

 

Maybe someone can explain it all to me or them in simple terms please. 

[fugtifino]

There just aren't enough jobs out there.

 

I know this isn't typical, but here's an example:

 

http://www.thisishullandeastriding.co.uk/645-apply-single-job-Hull-charity/story-19145232-detail/story.html#axzz2bnfc6ZN5

[Bazj]

and having been on site in Hull for two days last week, I can confirm that a large majority of the agency staff working on the unskilled or low skilled jobs were indeed of Eastern European origin. Just 5 minutes in the canteen felt like I was in Prague or somewhere.

 

Hull is a favoured place because of the ferry port of course; although why so many ended up in Crewe baffles me!