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The maritime nations of the world need to get their act together and create a joint naval force to protect shipping in the vulnerable areas. At the moment the worst cases are around the Horn of Africa and in the Gulf of Aden, and the pirates here are getting more daring. It may be necessary to start a convoy system until the problem is solved.

There used to be a big problem with pirates in the Mallacca Straits until the Malaysian and Indonesian governments decided to do something about it. there is still a big problem in Nigerian waters but civil unrest between tribes and endemic corruption amongst officialdom there is not helping. :(:(:(

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Agree Asp; more arguement for a World Police Force (the UN) that works. :shock: Hows about:- with the use of satellite intell, carrier borne aircraft and missile systems, submarines and special forces; taking out EVERY boat (down to a canoe), along the Somali coast - no boats = no pirates! :shock::wink:

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Not sure about the logic of using $1/2 million missiles to take out fishing canoes!!

 

Surely a cheaper (and legal) solution would be to put teams of special forces or Royal Marines on board UK flagged ships passing through the danger spots. They could give the pirates a nice warm welcome without inflicting casualties on the civilian population.

 

Might also make the shipping companies a little less keen on using flags of convenience.

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Just one point about UK flag ships and flags of convenience. These days there are UK flag ships sailing without even one British subject on board, while there are flag of convenience ships sailing with several Brits in the crew. By the same token Uk flag ships are not necessarily owned by British companies while British companies own flag of convenience ships. Like many things in the modern world things are not as simple as they look at first sight.

 

Another point about modern piracy, the pirates are being helped by modern technology such as the Automatic Identification Systems that all ships have to carry and use by international maritime regulation. The AIS transmits the ship's identity, position, course and speed so the pirates only need to have some knowledge of which ship is a good target and they can home in on their victim with little bother. :wink::wink::wink:

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I'd say, we should look after UK flagged vessels and let the flag of convenience countries protect their own - if they can.

 

Just because there are no UK crew-members does not stop a UK flagged vessel from being part of the British Merchant Navy, and from potentially being pressed into military service in time of war. I think these vessel deserve the protection of the UK armed forces.

 

Companies use flags of convenience to avoid paying UK wage rates to the crews and to dodge UK safety standards. Fine, that's perfectly legal, but they can't then expect the Royal Marines to come to their rescue.

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Errm Inky; not sure the mariners would appreciate any guns on board their ships, as if they were captured it would mean certain death and also an oil tanker isn't really the place for firing bullets. :shock::roll: You'll have to excuse my use of "canoe" for effect, but if ALL sea going vessels controlled by the Somalis, in docks or anchored off their coast, were eliminated, it would obviously eliminate the problem, and would be a good training exercise for our pilots. :wink: As for costs: I doubt it would cost more than the $100million being asked for one tanker! :roll::wink:

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Errm Inky; not sure the mariners would appreciate any guns on board their ships, as if they were captured it would mean certain death and also an oil tanker isn't really the place for firing bullets. :shock::roll: You'll have to excuse my use of "canoe" for effect, but if ALL sea going vessels controlled by the Somalis, in docks or anchored off their coast, were eliminated, it would obviously eliminate the problem, and would be a good training exercise for our pilots. :wink: As for costs: I doubt it would cost more than the $100million being asked for one tanker! :roll::wink:

So using your logic we should perhaps destroy every car, van and truck in Iraq as this would stop car bombings. :roll:

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So using your logic we should perhaps destroy every car, van and truck in Iraq as this would stop car bombings. :roll:

 

cracking idea!! migjht kill a few johnny foreigners but stop them killing british soldiers in such a cowardly way!! :lol:

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So using your logic we should perhaps destroy every car, van and truck in Iraq as this would stop car bombings. :roll:

 

cracking idea!! migjht kill a few johnny foreigners but stop them killing british soldiers in such a cowardly way!! :lol:

In Iraq its the British soldiers who are Johnny Foriegners

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Forget "stable" Governments in Africa, it involves high casualties once soldiers are committed on the ground. :roll: PJ, if we hadn't illegally invaded Iraq, we wouldn't have our troops there to be car bombed! :roll: Sinking every Somali boat would ensure the pirates have no transport and is suitabily low risk for our military: no boats = no pirates; or is that too simple for you?! :roll::wink:

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Forget "stable" Governments in Africa, it involves high casualties once soldiers are committed on the ground. :roll: PJ, if we hadn't illegally invaded Iraq, we wouldn't have our troops there to be car bombed! :roll: Sinking every Somali boat would ensure the pirates have no transport and is suitabily low risk for our military: no boats = no pirates; or is that too simple for you?! :roll::wink:

 

You constantly bang on about the "illegal" war in Iraq yet you post wonderful ideas like destroying every ship and boat in an entire country, no doubt killing untold innocents in the process. How legal an action would this be? Get a grip of yourself man your starting to believe your own drivel. :roll::roll::roll:

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Errm Inky; not sure the mariners would appreciate any guns on board their ships, as if they were captured it would mean certain death and also an oil tanker isn't really the place for firing bullets.

 

The whole point of putting Marines on board is so that the mariners DON'T GET captured.

 

And there's no need to let the pirates get anywhere near close enough for bullets to harm an oil tanker. Couple of these in their bridge and engine room would do the trick nicely. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=dH4PkOhrSn0

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.... and pray tell us, from where are all these marine commandos coming from - are we pulling out of Iraq and Afghanistan already?! :roll::wink: As Oakham said: " the simplest answer, is usually the best - no boats = no pirates! :wink:

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I'd say, we should look after UK flagged vessels and let the flag of convenience countries protect their own - if they can.

 

Just because there are no UK crew-members does not stop a UK flagged vessel from being part of the British Merchant Navy, and from potentially being pressed into military service in time of war. I think these vessel deserve the protection of the UK armed forces.

 

Companies use flags of convenience to avoid paying UK wage rates to the crews and to dodge UK safety standards. Fine, that's perfectly legal, but they can't then expect the Royal Marines to come to their rescue.

 

I think you're missing the point here. Just because a ship is UK flagged doesn't mean that it's UK owned and would therefore be available in times of war - the owner could just reflag to a neutral country!!

As for wage rates you will find that there is such a shortage of qualified crew these days that the days of cheap crews - except in extremely isolated cases - are numbered.

Safety standards on ships are subject to international regulation and any vessel of any flag can be inspected by Port State officials in any port in any country and, if found to be below standard, arrested until such time as any deficiencies are rectified. This includes crew welfare!

I've sailed on Liberian flag ships and they are inspected by the Liberian Authorities annually the same as UK flag ships are inspected by the Maritime and Coastguard Agency.

If the pirates are allowed to hijack as many 300,000 dwt tankers as they fancy just watch the price of oil shoot up again!! This is an international problem which needs an international solution never mind only "looking after your own". :wink::wink::wink::wink:

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.... and pray tell us, from where are all these marine commandos coming from

 

No. 40 Royal Marine Commando are currently in their bases in Taunton.

 

No more than four or five squad sized teams of a dozen Marines supported by a couple of helicopters and armed with suitable man-portable missiles would be plenty to defend UK vessels in the area. An air assault on ships in Somali ports would require hundreds, if not thousands, of times this amount of manpower - along with aircraft carriers (we don't have any), seabourne jet fighters (not got many of them, either), fleet defence ships, satellite coverage and in-country ground reconnaissance units - not to mention a UN resolution authorising it. No way is that going to happen.

 

Any UK flagged ship can, in fact, be requisitioned by the MOD under the STUFT (Ships Taken Up From Trade) system. The task force which sailed to the Falklands took with it 54 such requisitioned merchant ships, most with their entire crews - regardless of individual crew-members nationality.

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So I guess your denying R&R for our troops in between tours in the war zones; believe the Chief of Defence Staff has already warned against over commitment and manning merchant vessels wouldn't be a short term commitment either. :roll: Your correct about the UN resolution though; but assuming that was forthcoming, anti-shipping ops would be the simplest and shortest option, and would be final - unless the pirates have the capability to build sea going vessels?! :wink:

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Any UK flagged ship can, in fact, be requisitioned by the MOD under the STUFT (Ships Taken Up From Trade) system. The task force which sailed to the Falklands took with it 54 such requisitioned merchant ships, most with their entire crews - regardless of individual crew-members nationality.

 

The only problem with that being if the owner of the ship is foreign there is nothing to stop him removing his ship from the UK register and re registering it under another flag. I have already pointed this out. :roll::roll:

 

At the time of the Falklands the British Merchant Navy still had a fair number of British owned ships, not the case today!!

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Avas me hearty, with grapling hooks to be sure! :wink: Before we do commit a US led, UN carrier task force; it seems ships can be fitted with sonic deterents that apparently cause nausea to any modern day black beard; mind you, you still need look-outs to spot them coming. :wink:

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I understand heavily armed Islamists are on their way to attack the pirates. If they are successful in defeating the pirates I'm not sure if this will result in all of the ships being released or an increase in the ransom demands. :?

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