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Green Belt Under Threat - Areal View

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9 minutes ago, Togger1 said:

So when people claim that the bank is failing, they must be making stuff up then?

I don't know. I'm not speaking on behalf of anybody else. 

You've misused filibuster. More like droning on. 

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No, I think you will find both terms can be applied.  You say lots about something you admit to knowing nothing about.  Now, if the bank isn't failing,  could there be any legal ramifications for anybody claiming so, an individual or a platform such as a forum for example?

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Firstly i did not say that the bank was failing. i may have implied that it will but  not that it was.

Secondly i did not get an answer to my question from togger about what he thought. He asked me if the bank was failing and i pointed out that the council as involved in it and asked what his thoughts were on the matter.

this council has a bad reputation when it comes to projects and schemes. especially in their financing of them. How many of the projects they are involved in have turned up on time and under budget?

ok so very few projects ever do but the council ones just lately seem to double or triple in costs from the first projected costs.

it is about having a degree of trust in the council and at present people don't seem to have a great deal of that. but that is just my view from reading the local papers

ADDITIONAL. Are there legal ramifications. possibly but each case would have to be judged on it's own merit. personal opinion is just that and it is down then to that individual to take responsibility for any statements made and for any consequences of those statements.

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So is it failing Sid?  

 

Additional.  I did answer your question in what I thought, I said I thought you were making stuff up, was I right?

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That is what i asked you you seem to know as much about it as i do, maybe more. I do not have a pipeline to the council offices apart from the usual contact centre and i doubt that they will know.

perhaps you could find out for us and put our minds at rest.

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2 hours ago, Togger1 said:

No, I think you will find both terms can be applied.  You say lots about something you admit to knowing nothing about.  Now, if the bank isn't failing,  could there be any legal ramifications for anybody claiming so, an individual or a platform such as a forum for example?

I do know something about it though. All I've admitted is I don't know if it's already failed. I know its chances of survival aren't good. I also know councils shouldn't be touching investments like this with a barge pole and the Public Accounts Committee, Treasury, Cabinet Office, Moody's and a number of investment experts agree with me. 

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3 minutes ago, Togger1 said:

Wow you "know" these things?

Yes. 

A start up in the financial services sector has a survival rate of 58 percent over the first four years.  Fact

The PAC, Treasury etc have all expressed horror at what councils are doing with PWLB loans and are looking to close them down in the next budget. Fact. 

Moody's has downgraded the council's credit rating by two places because of these investments. Fact. 

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5 minutes ago, Togger1 said:

See you don't "know " it do you?  You simply believe it

No. We know those things. 

Have those bodies expressed horror at what councils are up to with PWLB loans and drawn up plans to prevent them doing so in future? Yes.

Has Moody's downgraded the council's credit rating? Yes. 

Is that the average success/failure rate for financial startups? Yes. 

But I can see cognitive dissonance has set in with you now, so I won't be wasting much more time on it. 

Out of interest, do you work for the council?

And finally, can you lend me a thousand quid to stick on a horse at 6/4 today?

 

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But you have absolutely no reason to believe that the bank is failing, simply a fear that it may?  In fact you seem rather keen for it to fail , presumably so you can say you were right.  Who I work for has absolutely nothing to do with you but I will tell you anyway. I do not and never have worked for any Council or bank or investment body, can you  be honest and tell me if you ever have?

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Ps  forget the grand, I have absolutely no confidence in your ability to pick a winner and you would probably be so busy gassing you would miss the start 😄

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11 minutes ago, Togger1 said:

But you have absolutely no reason to believe that the bank is failing, simply a fear that it may?  In fact you seem rather keen for it to fail , presumably so you can say you were right.  Who I work for has absolutely nothing to do with you but I will tell you anyway. I do not and never have worked for any Council or bank or investment body, can you  be honest and tell me if you ever have?

Neither have I. I've already told you what I do.

I don't know whether the bank is failing or not as I keep saying. But it's an insane punt with public money, especially right now. That is why I won't call out anybody on it. If somebody declares that it's a failed investment, there's an extremely good chance they will be right. But if they were to announce that the Birchwood purchase had failed, I'd call them on it because it's far too early to say and that would be bullshit.  

As for wanting this and other investments to fail, why would I? There is a real risk that WBC is putting at risk the finances of the town for many years if it goes bankrupt as a result. I also suspect that if the ROI fails to materialise as it expects, it will be paying more in interest than it receives on some of the money it has borrowed, which will affect services in the short term. If they get this wrong, my grandchildren will be paying for it, never mind my kids.

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That's great, I can leave the conversation, safe in the knowledge , that the bank investment and my towns money have not gone to the wall, well that's a relief.

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2 minutes ago, Togger1 said:

That's great, I can leave the conversation, safe in the knowledge , that the bank investment and my towns money have not gone to the wall, well that's a relief.

And yet strangely none the wiser....

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49 minutes ago, Togger1 said:

I  would never come here seeking wisdom, But if I am ever in the market for hyperbole i'll give you a whistle.

I'll bear it in mind just before redirecting you to a source of information. 

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On ‎18‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 7:14 AM, Togger1 said:

No, I think you will find both terms can be applied.  You say lots about something you admit to knowing nothing about.  Now, if the bank isn't failing,  could there be any legal ramifications for anybody claiming so, an individual or a platform such as a forum for example?

'legal ramifications'   Oh, deary me!  ;) ;) 

I really don't think, whatever is said, that WBC would mount any legal (very public) challenge   - they would have to produce detailed evidence to prove that the bank wasn't failing and also prove that there were no solid grounds for anyone to have believed any 'failing' was a very likely possibility. 

Firstly, there would be difficulties in determining what exactly constitutes 'failing'.  WBC failing to meet their often fantastical predictions re their projects is pretty commonplace.

 Also, the town's crap credit rating and past blunders (all described in great detail) would illustrate how very difficult it would be for anyone NOT to expect that any of WBC's projects would be failing.

'Legal ramifications' ...........................hilarious!  :D 

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1 hour ago, Sha said:

'

 Also, the town's crap credit rating  (it's A1) ...........................hilarious!  :D 

 

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4 hours ago, Togger1 said:

 

You know that it's been downgraded by two places because of the risks they are taking though don't you? I know you're not mad on facts being offered you that challenge your opinions, so go look it up for yourself, not that you've shown any signs yet that it will change your mind. Anyway, this is what they said, singling out Warrington in a way they didn't any other town. 

 

RATIONALE FOR TWO NOTCH DOWNGRADE ON WARRINGTON BOROUGH COUNCIL

The two notch downgrade of Warrington Borough Council (Warrington) from Aa2 to A1 reflects (1) the pressures discussed above for all UK local authorities, and (2) the relative position of Warrington compared to other rated local authorities in terms of risk appetite and projected increased debt burden. Warrington's capital investment programme demonstrates a higher risk appetite relative to peers. In addition to traditional town centre infrastructure improvements, the programme includes investing in a new "challenger" bank, launching a Housing Company, and on-lending to housing associations, introducing riskier elements to the local authority's credit profile. Warrington plans to fund this capital programme mainly through debt, which would lead to a projected quadrupling of debt to revenues over the next three years, from 103% in 2016 to a forecast 436% in 2019.

 

Now ask yourself, who is taking the decisions about risk, and who is actually at risk?  

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If the facts presented are fully correct I am happy to accept them.  It wasn't downgraded twice because of risks it has taken was it?  Surely, even as your copy and paste facts allude to it was downgraded along with all 53 other authorities as a consequence of the UK being downgraded by Moodys after the Brexit vote? Does it still have an A1 rating as I stated or are you disputing the only fact I presented in the post?  I know that doesn't pan too well with your dogma but it's a fact all the same.  Perhaps though you are right and WBC should find some nice safe Icelandic bank to invest in :D 

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3 hours ago, Togger1 said:

If the facts presented are fully correct I am happy to accept them.  It wasn't downgraded twice because of risks it has taken was it?  Surely, even as your copy and paste facts allude to it was downgraded along with all 53 other authorities as a consequence of the UK being downgraded by Moodys after the Brexit vote? Does it still have an A1 rating as I stated or are you disputing the only fact I presented in the post?  I know that doesn't pan too well with your dogma but it's a fact all the same.  Perhaps though you are right and WBC should find some nice safe Icelandic bank to invest in :D 

QED. Proving my point for me now and disproving your own argument that you accept facts. 

Was it downgraded by two points because of the risk it has been taking? According to the people who downgraded it, yes. It's right there. In front of you. Black and white. Under your nose. 

"Does it still have an A1 rating"? It doesn't 'still' have anything, seeing as it's just been changed to a lower rating.

The fact is that the Icelandic banks were far less risky than a start up. Investing in startups is notoriously risky. I know that's another fact you won't like, but there you go.    

So, I'll ask you again. Who is making the decisions about this risk and who is actually taking on the risk? 

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Seems A1 to me, and all your bluster can't change that can it?  

 

p.s. your post was the perfect example of pigeon chess :D

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