Labour Pains -

[Evil Sid]

not too rosy at the top as you know. not only cream that rises.

[observer]

Well, they had Jeremy V Owen on Q/Time tonight; which Jezz clearly won imo.  Smith epitomises the problem with most politicians, in arrogantly assuming they know what's best for us, to the point where he would overturn  the democratic result of the referendum, thus alienating over 52% of voters.  Unfortunately, though Jezz has some principled socialist convictions, his weak position on immigration is destined to alienate the same 52% of voters, including Labour voters.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  

[observer]

With 80% of the PLP having no confidence in Corbyn's leadership prompting an attempted coup; surely their position is now untenable? If Jezz wins the Leadership contest, then clearly they are no longer representative of the Labour Party and should go; but no: 14 out of 20 that resigned from the shadow cabinet have said they would return if invited; so these four faced B's don't even have any self respect.

[Davy51]

No doubt the trappings of a seat on the shadow cabinet are better than those of a back bencher . None of these carpet baggers are there for the good of mankind.

[observer]

Another resounding victory for Jeremy; with many of the 4 faced careerist MPs now sucking up to him for a front bench job. Time these leeches were de-selected, but I doubt Jezz has the killer instinct required to do it. As for their electability; Labour has totally lost contact with many of it's older, more traditional supporters, as it's totally incapable of addressing their concerns with immigration.

[Davy51]

This party seems much closer to the pre 90s variety with its more prominent union participation.

[Davy51]

Amazing Obs, how principles seem to have departed at the prospect of losing shadow cabinet benefits.

[observer]

McDonald admits to a UK deficit of £1.6trillion; then goes on to say that Labour will spend £250billion on UK infrastructure. So I guess the books won't be balanced any time soon !

[asperity]

He is talking about investing in failing industry that is failing all over the world. That should work then

[Sha]

Another resounding victory for Jeremy; with many of the 4 faced careerist MPs now sucking up to him for a front bench job. Time these leeches were de-selected, but I doubt Jezz has the killer instinct required to do it. As for their electability; Labour has totally lost contact with many of it's older, more traditional supporters, as it's totally incapable of addressing their concerns with immigration.

 

 I think Corbyn has gained sufficient confidence since his re-election to stand up to his opposing MP'S. I don't think there will be immediate mass de-selection, not because he hasn't got the 'killer instinct' but because it's just not his style.  McDonnel seems like the type to be urging for a bloodbath type of purging but I think  Corbyn will go for a less dramatic and more intelligent approach and his main critics will be pegged off one by one. Corbyn can retain his 'reasonable and civilised' image and let the party members deselect the renegades. 

Personally I think the backstabbers should resign but as Obs says they are like leeches and will cling on as such.

 

I think Labour under Corbyn has re-established contact with it's older and more traditional supporters who had deserted due to the Tory Blair influence. They have now also gained many new young supporters. The really vicious attacks on Corbyn from MP's of all parties, the media, and big business have been because they are afraid of his growing popularity. They claim that he would never win an election but in reality it is precisely that which they fear.       

[Sha]

McDonald admits to a UK deficit of £1.6trillion; then goes on to say that Labour will spend £250billion on UK infrastructure. So I guess the books won't be balanced any time soon !

 

How much is currently being spent on building shopping centres and offices only to end up as boarded up ghost towns? building new schools to replace ones that didn't need replacing? the HS2 that is an unnecessary waste etc. etc. The only reason for spending this money is to benefit developers.

Perhaps Labour will spend on infrastructure that is either more useful to the people or in the long run more beneficial to economic growth. Will there in fact be much difference to that which is currently being spent?   

[Sha]

He is talking about investing in failing industry that is failing all over the world. That should work then

 

Can you enlarge on that Asp? Which failing industry do you mean?

If it's the British Steel Industry - Germany and Italy are protecting their Steel industry so why shouldn't we? 

[observer]

Don't think Labour members get it, or at least won't admit it: they've lost the older generation, most will have voted to Leave the EU and will now expect radical curbs on immigration; something that is simply not in current Labour's DNA. Yes, they'll pick up the student and possibly ethnic vote; but that may not be enough. Society has polarised to the right and left, as with most other Western democracies, for similar reasons; leaving a void in the soft centre. Whether this void can be filled by a union of centrist parties, remains to be seen. As for the spend policy; yes it's the only alternative to austerity, but borrowing alone will run up even higher deficits (the UK has the second highest in the world). But there are new ideas emerging from some economists, suggesting the dispersal of capital away from the few, towards the many, thus creating demand and economic growth. So McDonald is not alone; the question is, would a Labour Gov have the determination to redistribute wealth through taxation on the scale required, and would HMRC be up to the job?

[Davy51]

I think one of the problems in the UK economy is lack of disposable income among the masses. Everything basic to running a home or vehicle is top price & when many households have paid household & travel to work costs plus other weekly essentials there is not a lot left to spend on luxuries. Give families & individuals more disposable income & that will stimulate the parts of the economy that are struggling.

I think what we are seeing with the present Labour party this weekend is an organisation that wants to appear as much as possible to the electorate as the old pre Blairite Socialist Party.

[asperity]

[observer]

 Nice one Asp; but "the money tree" IS out there, no one's really tapped into it.    Dave, I think that's what  was saying. We've now got Councils being forced to make cuts beyond the level of their statutory obligations; with the use of unpaid volunteer groups being used to do the work of previously paid employees; so rather than paying folk "a living wage" for staying at home, it maybe more usefull to fund Councils to employ people for social and environmental tasks.  As for Jeremy; he's just said (on the news); that if he was PM he would not press the nuclear button, thus making a nonsense of the Nuclear deterent and current Labour Party policy. When asked about his intentions over immigration, he totally avoided the question, showing he has no intention of addressing the issue in a manner consistent with most voter opinion..

[asperity]

I'm sorry to have to break it to you Obs but there really isn't a magic money tree. Have you never heard the expressions "you don't get anything for nothing" and "there's no such thing as a free lunch". As for borrowing £billions to prop up failing industry (and isn't it a Labour mantra that the evil Tories under Thatcher destroyed all of British industry in the 1980s?), I can remember the 60s and 70s when successive governments tried to do just that with spectacular (not) results.

[observer]

Of course there's money out there Asp, is just owned by a relative few; some of whom will be performing an essential role in society like singing pop songs or kicking a piece of leather around a field for 90 mins. Obscene levels of income, obscene accumulations of wealth. You have to go back beyond the 60s to the late 40s to find tax levels that supported massive re-investments in housing (demolished by the Luftwaffe), health and education, other public services being provided for the Plebs; plus paying off the Yanks for lend lease. So, it's been done before, successfully.

[asperity]

Total garbage Obs and you know it. You only have to look at Venezuela (praised very recently by Mr Corbyn) to see the way the socialist dream evaporates when the "money tree" dies yet again. And that is a country with lots of oil to exploit!! Socialists do it every time, regardless of how many millions of people they manage to massacre in pursuit of their dreams.

[observer]

Not "garbage" at all:   We have a huge wealth gap between the few wealthiest and the majority of Plebs. Thus the majority of disposable capital needed to create demand is in fewer hands; as an individual can only eat one meal, drive one car at a time, such wealth is surplus to their requirements; indeed some Billionaires like Bill Gates are now giving it away to charities.  The reality is, that with increasing technologies, an increasing number of Plebs are becoming economically surplus to requirements. Their only saving grace  is their usefulness as customers, in order to maintain the capitalist system. So, it's ultimately in the interests of capital to ensure that the customer base expands and is provided with the ability to purchase goods, thus creating demand, which in turn creates jobs and growth; keeping the whole economic merry go round, going round. Now whether the Corbynites and HMRC are  capable of bringing in the required measures, is open to question. Whilst discussing Grammar Schools at Party Conference, CH4's Crick, approached half a dozen MPs, who had sent their kids to Grammar or Private Schools; so I guess we can't expect anything revolutionary from the "don't do as I do, do as I say" Brigade ! 

[Bazj]

You only have to look no further than Diane Abbott if you want to see a complete "don't do as I do" example. This vile creature is probably the most racist MP in the history of parliament and is so self-serving it is sickening... while banging on against capitalism and grammar schools she sends her own son to private school... disgusting

[asperity]

Emily Thornberry is another one, champagne socialists.

[Davy51]

Alarmingly, most of these champagne socialists were the old militant tendency of the 70s that led to the birth of the SDP. Jezzer was prominent as was Hain ,Tatchell ,Cook & Straw.

 

At least Benn, Skinner & Foot were tolerable because of their left wing openness.

[observer]

See Jezz has filled his shadow cabinet with luvvies from the London bubble -  obviously looking to save a few seats at the next GE ! 

[Lt Kije]

I think UKIP are in pain, after a punch up, Mr Wolfe ended up in hospital. As to Labour, they have committed suicide !!!