St Thomas's Bell

[Sha]

Update received tonight;
The bell is now the property of John Taylor Foundry. It first needs cleaning of years of debris, this plus recycling, metal value is £8,882. The transport cost of bringing it back to Warrington would be £312. So the cost of saving it would be £9,194. If anyone wants to buy it back, they will have to raise funds quickly (within 3 weeks) as if not purchased it will be melted down and the metal used to make new bells. John Taylor Foundry would be willing to accept an initial 50% within the 3 weeks to retain the bell, and perhaps a little longer for the remaining 50%.
So £4,600 needs to be raised fast!
NB. As well as the £9,194 to purchase and bring the bell back, there will also be additional costs for mounting it for display – (wherever it may be proposed to go).
£10k or so is not a great amount for a piece of ‘heritage art’ these days. Perhaps the biggest problem would be finding a suitable site. I think It would look lovely mounted in the forge shopping centre with a striker for kids to ping it as they go past but it would probably be stolen by scrap metal thieves within days! A suitable SECURE site would need to be found.

[Dizzy]

Thanks for the update Sha.

Although, like many, I am happy that the Church is getting a new set of bells and credit to the church etc that they have managed to secure lottery finding and also worked hard to raise the extra money needed. I too still feel that it is wrong that this old bell which is heavily inscribed and that was given to the church by John Crosfield in memory of his first wife Eliza who died in 1882 maybe heading for the melting pot.  Anyway I said all that under yesterdays new story about it which is here for anyone who missed the news story.

http://www.warrington-worldwide.co.uk/2016/01/13/bid-to-keep-historic-church-bell-in-warrington/

It seems to me that maybe the Foundry have offset the cost of the new bells ever so slightly with the scrap/melted metal value of this old bell.  I can see why they would do this and why the church would have allowed it given shortage of funding but once it's melted down it's gone forever and that's another piece of our local heritage gone

Maybe the foundry, being not too local, aren't really aware of the Crosfields and their strong connection to Warrington.  They may not even know that John Crosfield who donated it is buried in St Thomas Chruch graveyard in the same grave as his first wife Eliza (who it's in memory of) despite him being of a Quaker background.  In the same grave are two of their children who died in infancy and his sisters too.  I'm sure the church know that though so I guess it's just me being sentimental   

It's a shame that it's removal and possible melting down has only just come to light as maybe given more time a home could have been found for it, maybe even in the Crosfields building, but for someone to suddenly come up with £10k to save it now might be asking a bit too much

 

[Sha]

"to suddenly come up with £10k to save it now might be asking a bit too much"

If there is a hope that funds could be raised via a public appeal, removing the story from the news page so quickly won't help.

 

If a secure place to put it is found and the issue is then just the cost, I would suggest approaching Peel Holdings to pay for the bell as an 'act of goodwill' to the people of Stockton Heath who through their negligence lost the Heritage Forge Machinery.

[Evil Sid]

To which peel will reply that they need the money to not paint the road bridges.

[Freeborn John]

I'm confused, the article states that the bell weights a ton, when the nearest bronze alloy to bell metal, gunmetal, is going for around £2000 a tonne, how on earth is the metal in that bell worth almost £9,000?

[Sha]

In answer to Sid's post;

 

To which I would reply; "considering the facts that;

1) all the companies under Peel ownership are linked back to the main company and based off-shore for tax purposes so don't pay any,

and 2) that Peel projects are often subsidised by British public funding.

- They should have made enough multi-millions to be able to contribute something to the community, especially to a community whom through their negligence our heritage forge machinery was lost."

 

But as you imply Sid, it would no doubt fall on deaf ears, as they even expect the public to pay for the general upkeep of their property (the bridges).

 

The real solution would be to get them and other offshore tax evaders to pay their fair share of tax which would enrich the Govt coffers enough to end cuts to local councils - who could then afford to fund their own heritage projects and still have lots left for public services.

[Sha]

I'm confused, the article states that the bell weights a ton, when the nearest bronze alloy to bell metal, gunmetal, is going for around £2000 a tonne, how on earth is the metal in that bell worth almost £9,000?

 

The £8,882 price includes cleaning it of years of pigeon poop. I don't know much bell metal actually sells for.  Perhaps it is heavier than 1 ton ?  

Whatever, the above costs are those quoted by the foundry who now own the bell.  

[Freeborn John]

The £8,882 price includes cleaning it of years of pigeon poop. I don't know much bell metal actually sells for.  Perhaps it is heavier than 1 ton ?  

Whatever, the above costs are those quoted by the foundry who now own the bell.  

It was just a heads up, I suppose they can ask what they want, seeing as they now own it, though at that price a cynic might suggest that they don't want to sell it.

[Dizzy]

Can anyone make out what the inscription on the bell says?  Not my photo, it was taken by someone at the church when it came down and posted on their facebook page.  Such a shame it's not a clearer photo.

[Dizzy]

It's big..... again not my photo but I'm sure the church wont mind it being on here.

[Dizzy]

and some snippets of info about the bell that I came across

 

 

 

 

[Dizzy]

I'm confused, the article states that the bell weights a ton, when the nearest bronze alloy to bell metal, gunmetal, is going for around £2000 a tonne, how on earth is the metal in that bell worth almost £9,000?

Good point Freeborn John.  Maybe they should let us buy it back at scrap metal value.  Ok so it might need cleaning of years of pigeon poop but surely that can't be hard to do (I'll get my marigolds and scrubbers out....) and it's not like it needs to be put back to as new condition, in fact I think new condition would spoil the look of it.

[John__Shipley]

Thank you Dizzy and SHA for all your information. If anybody would like to be involved in getting the bell returned to Warrington, please contact me at warrington.civsoc@gmail.com or 07954521972. Warrington Civic Society will also be meeting at Holy Trinity Church. Market Gate on Monday at 7pm which you are all welcome to attend.

[Evil Sid]

 

Can anyone make out what the inscription on the bell says?

the top bit between the banding is the name of the firm that made it

 

(company name) and co bellfounders.

 

the next line i think is

dei et glorium. 

et in memorium

(first name) crossfield xor s ............

 

after that i cannot fiddle enough with photoshop to make out properly.

[Coffee]

Why was the bell not used and why was it removed?

[Evil Sid]

 

The £8,882 price includes cleaning it of years of pigeon poop.

come summer when the kids are off i will gladly spend my free time cleaning off the pigeon droppings at half that price, and i will bring my own wire brush and marigold gloves.

[Dizzy]

Update....

The Warrington Civic Society and others are working hard to save the bell from the melting pot. 

There are only 11 days left to raise the deposit required to secure it and save from the pot.

Here is the Civic Societies facebook page....

https://www.facebook.com/warringtoncivicsociety/?fref=nf

AND AS OF TODAY AN ONLINE FUNDING PAGE HAS BEEN SET UP here...

http://uk.virginmoneygiving.com/charity-web/charity/displayCharityCampaignPage.action?charityCampaignUrl=SaveTheBell.

Please donate if you can, no matter how small a donation, as everything helps and hopefully a wonderful piece of Warrington's Heritage can be saved before it's too late.



 

[grey_man]

Update....

 

The Warrington Civic Society and others are working hard to save the bell from the melting pot. 

 

There are only 11 days left to raise the deposit required to secure it and save from the pot.

 

Here is the Civic Societies facebook page....

 

https://www.facebook.com/warringtoncivicsociety/?fref=nf

 

AND AS OF TODAY AN ONLINE FUNDING PAGE HAS BEEN SET UP here...

 

http://uk.virginmoneygiving.com/charity-web/charity/displayCharityCampaignPage.action?charityCampaignUrl=SaveTheBell.

 

Please donate if you can, no matter how small a donation, as everything helps and hopefully a wonderful piece of Warrington's Heritage can be saved before it's too late.

 

 

 

 

I'm happy to donate but what happens to the money if the appeal is unsuccessful?

[Evil Sid]

will get put to the next project possibly.

[Dizzy]

If you click the donation page link Evils it says on there.

Online page has raised about £120 this afternoon....coulc be better but it's not widely publicised yet as it only started at lunch time.

They have other donations too now  (not done online)including  one from a business man and one from the Freemasons today which I believe amount to around £2000.

It's certainly do-able so COME ON PLEASE DONATE even if it's just a fiver or something. 

Every bit helps and maybe if we get near to the deposit total the foundry will give us a little more time  if 
it's close but not quite there.  Well I'd like to think they would anyway or they will get some bad press from some of us if they melt it down knowing we are nearly there


 

[Sha]

I'm happy to donate but what happens to the money if the appeal is unsuccessful?

 

I'm happy to donate too but first want to know where it goes to if it doesn't go to saving the bell. 

There was a note on the Civic Society website suggesting it would be split 50/50 between the Walton Lea Project and the Civic Society. Whilst I'm quite happy to give money to the Walton Lea Project I don't at present want to fund the newly formed Civic Society. I think there are too many councillors in that group and whether they will be acting in the public's or council's interest remains to be seen.

 

I think donors should be given a choice who will get their money if it doesn't go to saving the bell.  

 

Also, I'm waiting to see what Stockton Heath, Appleton and Walton parish councils are prepared to give, because if they won't give now towards the deposit whilst the bell is in danger of being melted down it's unlikely they will give anything later. Let them know it will be all shame on them if the bell is lost. Public contributions will be needed to provide the other 50% of the cost of saving the bell. Also funds will be needed to make sure the site for the bell is secure and some kind of structure will need to be built to display it. 

[Dizzy]

Oh bloody hell

I was feeling really positive that the deposit money could easily be raised in time to secure and safeguard the bell from the melting pot especially considering the amount of support and comments on here and social media about it's removal, history and that of the Crosfields family. 

Now because the Civic Society has had to make a decision and say what 'could' happen with any funding raised should enough not be given before the deadline to secure it in 10 days time then now people are saying they are being put off donating.

They had to say something as from what I understand it's a requisite for on-line funding campaigns...and now that could go against them and the fundraising ?!?!

I do understand people's concerns but I've donated £20 anyway and although I'd prefer all mine to just go to Walton Lea Partnerships (a very worthy cause) rather than be split 50/50 with the Civics if by any chance enough is not raised it's a chance I was willing to take if it means the bell CAN BE SAVED.

Rather than ponder over the 'remote possibilities' then surely if people just donate enough WILL be raised and then bell will be bough back home and not melted down.

Come on SHA you were one of the first to contact the Foundry and find all the costs involved and info out and you posted it on here when the Civics were still trying to find out. 

 

Surely you of all people know how important it is go get people on side and for them to donate whatever they can TO SAVE IT.


 

[grey_man]

I see what you mean Dizzy, but I'm not giving money to anything until I know what will happen to it. Even if they announced it would be going to charity, I'd be happy.   

[Evil Sid]

Call me stupid but what is the rush to melt it down. It has been in the church for years and years now it has been removed they suddenly want to get it melted down quick. Metal for making bells cannot be that scarce surely.

 

And just how many bells would be made from the recycled metal two three. So given that it is such a big part of the town heritage, why cannot it be set aside for a longer period until sufficient funds can be raised?

[Sha]

Sid, The bell is now the property of the foundry not the Church. It passed into the foundry's hands as part payment for work done during the renovation works on the Church Tower.  The foundry need metal to make bells for orders that they have. If they don't use the metal from smelting the bell they will have to buy some. That kind of metal isn't scarce but it's costly! They need the metal soon - hence the deadline!  They've said that they will accept 50% deposit and the rest later. They could have just refused -they are not even based in Warrington so it isn't their local history so I reckon the foundry are being OK.