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inky pete

They call this listening?

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No problem with that Baz, if they are making money off the back of us, they should be re investing it for our benefit.

 

What they should also be doing is listening to local businesses. 

 

Interesting stats from Cleo there. They are quite obviously targeting this particular car park as a way of making money from fines.  

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Local business also want cheaper rents and taxes should they listen to that as well, the council need to generate money, it's as simple as that.

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Can't fine you if you don't do anything wrong. Perhaps that is where the profitable car park claims come from, fines not fees. I wouldn't be surprised if there was less of a constraint on how money raised by fines can be spent compared with money raised by fees

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What WBC are doing could be construed as being illegal unless they can show that every penny of profit goes towards other road projects such as pot holes etc.....

 

"Transport minister Norman Baker said: "The law is quite clear. Councils should not be pricing their parking in order to make a profit."

 

"Last week, the High Court ruled against Barnet Council's move to raise the cost of residents' parking permits in a landmark victory for campaigners.

Mrs Justice Lang ruled that the council acted unlawfully when it increased permit costs to generate more money for road maintenance."

 

But the council doesn't make any profit on car parking in Warrington so that doesn't apply.

 

Why should car users get a subsidy (free or cheap parking) that people without cars don't?

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Why should car users get a subsidy (free or cheap parking) that people without cars don't?

What  use is a special lane for cyclists if you haven't got a bike? :unsure:

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But the council doesn't make any profit on car parking in Warrington so that doesn't apply.

 

Why should car users get a subsidy (free or cheap parking) that people without cars don't?

 

Well buses are subsidized, cyclists are subsidized they get cycle lanes and places to put their bikes. If they dump their bike in the doorway or in the middle of a pavement, they do not get the Gestepo issuing them with fines, they can even ride their bikes on pavements. Motorists subsidies them, in the tax they pay in road tax, fuel duty, VAT, car park charges!

 

While I understand the need for the council to raise money and 50p isn't going to bankrupt anyone, go to far and you are in danger of driving people away, no people, no shops, no rates, no income from parking. The £10 charge for parking over 4 hours is a joke, and so is £4 for parking over two hours.

 

Have you ever heard off loss leaders?, it were you attract people in by making a loss on something and making a greater profit else where.

 

Of course you have because that is why the council do not charge on a Sunday, to attract shoppers. NOw I am really confused because, if the council thinks this works on a Sunday why would it not work on other days???

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But the council doesn't make any profit on car parking in Warrington so that doesn't apply.

 

Why should car users get a subsidy (free or cheap parking) that people without cars don't?

 

Steve, if the council do not make a profit, do they make a loss? and if so why not get rid of the parking Nazis and save money? I thought that is what you were always banging on about doing anyway....

 

as for the last line; well others have already answered but I would have to agree and point out that not only are buses subsidised, they run across the town virtually empty for most of the day and only seem to fill up at rush hour....... and as for subsidising bicyclists; well you know my opinions on the waste of money that cycle lanes are in the town and how the bikes never even go near the lanes..... in fact, as a car driver, I am more likely not to be involved in a collision with a bike if I drive on the cycle lanes!

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So, Steve, you think it's unfair that people with cars should be allowed to park free while those without cars don't park free? Bit Irish is that me auld lovie. Simple solution (continuing in the Irish vein) would be to allow those without cars free parking too. :wink:

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But the council doesn't make any profit on car parking in Warrington so that doesn't apply.

 

Why should car users get a subsidy (free or cheap parking) that people without cars don't?

 

 

You're right Steve. Much better for the council to put shops out of business. They're telling you the parking 'strategy' is harming their businesses so how do you square that with the Council's own plan for 2013-14 which specifically states that it should support local businesses? Do you see any conflict? 

 

How is Bridge Street doing these days under the council's stewardship? Maybe if you put some planters down there, people won't notice it's dead. Oh, you're already trying that. Good luck.  

 

Now I know you think it's only fair that people should only pay for those things they use, what would this new policy mean for Warrington's schools, public transport and social services and everything else? Surcharges for people with children? A profit making local bus service and increased fares? How about privatising everything so that we only pay for the things we use? How would you see that working? Do tell. 

 

While you're campaigning for that don't forget that a great deal of the parking deficit comes from the council's own parking arrangements for employees. So I'll expect to see you fighting tooth and nail to get the subsidy removed from councillors and employees. Keep us updated on progress.  

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Any suggestions on how the council could keep it revenue streams up grey man, or are you here just to criticise, most high streets in towns are dying,

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They should try things that don't harm local businesses. That can only be counterproductive in the long term. 

 

Now if you don't mind I'm eagerly awaiting to hear Steve's plans to make sure people only pay for the council services they use. 

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I think I've already said. If the system in Stockton Heath was making a surplus already and supported local businesses and the medical centre and minimised the disruption to local residents through on-street parking and everybody was happy with it then there was no need to change it. The medical centre is now writing 50 letters a week to the council to support parking appeals, local businesses are losing trade and it's a problem for the neighbours. 

 

The deficit in parking is actually down to staff car parking at the council and residents on-street parking schemes so they should be looking at decreasing costs and improving income in those areas before they break something that was both profitable and working. If the changes had no impact on people and businesses, there'd be no problem. But they do and it is, so the council has got it wrong and is actually doing something that runs counter to its own stated strategic objectives.  

 

OK?

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But the car parks at Lymm are still always full so I don't see how it has put folk off parking there and going into the village. Even before the changes to the car park fees there was always a problem with inconsiderate , illegal parking which I put down to ignorance or an over inflated sense of self importance.

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That is true and it will always happen. I also know that the most inconsiderate often seem to be the ones who kick off most when they are caught out. 

 

I don't know anything about the situation in Lymm so can't comment. I do know what is happening in Stockton Heath though and the council have made a mistake.  

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Has there been a significant drop in the use of the car park in Stockton Heath? Seems just as busy on the streets as it was before the changes to the parking fees

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People are staying for shorter periods and using the local roads for parking more. What we also know is that local traders are seeing a fall off in trade and it's causing problems for the medical centre. 

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Maybe I'm missing something here. But I'm old enough to remember that car parks, in towns and villages, were created for the benefit of those people who wanted to visit and shop there. Free! An amenity. Not necessarily for the locals who lived there (as some have pointed out here) but for those folk coming in from surrounding areas. Bringing trade to the area. Local businesses depended on it. Car parks were looked at as a loss leader, they cost money to run them, but were considered essential for the successful economy of the area, so cost was offset by the benefits to the area. Then somewhere along the line, councils thought," I know, forget the amenity bit, let's make money from this" and looked at parking as a profit making business, claiming we must cover our costs? Why?-To the detriment of the area. It's driven shoppers to places where the parking is free. Are there any councillors who have anything other than a block of wood between the ears who can't see this? Look at Warrington shops, Bridge Street is a prime example. It's almost a deserted eyesore. Not exactly a shining example of a good town shopping area, is it? And how about the Bridgefoot Riverside Retail Park....try parking there and being one minute over the allotted time, or getting the car wheels slightly over the white lines and you will be faced with fines, clamping and the wrath of those security heavies. Real draconian enforcement measures in place there! That really encourages shoppers to the area, doesn't it?  Let's chase the business away and then afterwards wonder why! Now they are trying to implement the same procedures on places like Stockton Heath. These council lunatics are running the asylum! But they don't and won't listen and see the obvious, so I think the best thing is just to give up and go and lie down in a cool darkened room.

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Maybe I'm missing something here. But I'm old enough to remember that car parks, in towns and villages, were created for the benefit of those people who wanted to visit and shop there. Free! An amenity. And not necessarily for the locals who lived there, but for those folk coming in from surrounding areas. Bringing trade to the area. Businesses depended on it. Then somewhere along the line, councils thought," I know, let's make money from this" and looked at parking not as an amenity, but as a profit making business. What has happened? It's driven shoppers to places where the parking is free. Are there any councillors who have anything other than a block of wood between the ears who can't see this? Look at Warrington shops, Bridge Street for example. Not exactly a shining example of a good town shopping area, is it? And how about the Riverside Retail Park....try parking there and not buying anything, or getting the wheels slightly off the white lines and you will face hefty fines. Draconian. Now that's clever thinking isn't it, force shoppers away. Now they are trying to implement the same procedures on places like Stockton Heath. These council lunatics are running the asylum! But they don't and won't listen and see the obvious, so I think I will just give up and go and lie down in a cool darkened room.

 

The problem is car parks need maintaining, insuring, lighting and so on and the money has to be found some place.

 

However I do not understand why employee parking and residential permits are lumped together with car parking. Most employers do not charge for parking and so their car parks run at a loss, car parking for employees is a cost of employing them.

 

As for residential parking, how can you loose money on them? Print out a permit, charge for it and the only other cost is a few street signs

 

I am not sure if all of Warrington's town center parking is to do with parking charges, the rates charged on businesses is also a major contributor to businesses not able to afford to trade in Warrington. The traffic chaos around Warrington can be off putting too (although it is not as bad as to the Trafford Center)

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They'll be charging kids to play on the council playgrounds next...............

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Any suggestions on how the council could keep it revenue streams up grey man, or are you here just to criticise, most high streets in towns are dying,

 

whatever way they do it Kije; they are not allowed to increase parking charges to fund other projects..... it is illegal

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Personally I'm just dying to hear more about Steve Parish's idea that people should only pay for the council services they use. Seems like a non-starter to me but maybe he has a point. Come on Steve. 

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he hasn't responded yet Grey_Man.... although he has been on this thread (I saw he was active on here yesterday!!)

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