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c1870 town Centre Pubs.


algy
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Where did you get this from Algy?

 

I don't suppose whether anyone knows if the The Vine Inn (no 19) used to be the Legh Arms? I read about the murder of Betty Minshull in 1837 in the Legh Arms, the book also has an engraving of the Barley Mow and the Legh Arms which appear to be so close as to be almost joined, in fact Betty was killed in the 'narrow alley' that ran between the 2 pubs.

 

I suppose by 1870 it must have changed it's name, I wonder if the name change was anything to do with shaking off the taint of the murder?

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I don't think it did Tracey - the Legh Arms was down on Mersey Street near Gandy's Clog Shop at the end of Rose and Crown Street. I used the Vine occasionally when Sue and Sid Richardson went there from the Seven Stars and Bill Medland took it over and Geoff Savage became Manager.

 

Some of the pubs round the old market were pretty rough. I used to go in the Cocktail Bar upstairs in the Cock and Trumpet a lot when Nat and Zelma Silcock had it. They went to the Railway in Milner Street when it closed.

 

Peridot :)

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I obtained the map with the pubs on many years ago from a friend,the pub numbers names and Street names were written in pencil and didn't lend themselves to reproduction so I redid all of them on a photo editing programme but retained the original map.

 

Your correct Trace, the Legh Arms was next to the Barley Mow, on the 1870 picture below you can just see it peeping on the right hand side, interesting to note that the sign on the Inn reads Leigh not Legh, it was knocked down around 1873 when they made a new market incorporating Market Street, the Vine was then built on the corner and side/opposite to the Barley Mow.

WarringtonMarketSquare.jpg

This next picture (map) shows the Vine in in 1890.

VineInn.jpg

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I stand corrected and have never seen that print before. I was always aware of the passageway being built but not that the Vine had been rebuilt on the opposite corner. The Cattle Market was in the same row.

 

Peridot :)

The "Cattlemarket", that's where I used to go to pay my union subs every week, the AEU and Boilermakers Society held meetings in rooms upstairs in the pub.

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That's great, thanks Algy. That engraving is the one in my book ('Outrages Fatal and Other' the one which has the Post Boy story in it) but the date given is 1843 and the author notes "The Legh Arms pub, wrongly spelt with an i, can just be seen on the right". The clothing looks more late 18th/early 19th C than late 19th C I think.

 

Thanks for the map too.

 

Back to your original map, I'm quite satisfied to learn there used to be an Upper Angel too, wonder why they named the two pubs in tandem?

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That's great, thanks Algy. That engraving is the one in my book ('Outrages Fatal and Other' the one which has the Post Boy story in it) but the date given is 1843 and the author notes "The Legh Arms pub, wrongly spelt with an i, can just be seen on the right". The clothing looks more late 18th/early 19th C than late 19th C I think.

 

Thanks for the map too.

 

Back to your original map, I'm quite satisfied to learn there used to be an Upper Angel too, wonder why they named the two pubs in tandem?

Tracey, there was also an Upper and Lower Seven Stars.

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There was another topic on here which mentioned and queried the Upper and lower Seven Stars.

 

At the time I put that ...

 

"The 'Higher Seven Stars' was at 105 Bridge Street although the other is just called 'Seven Stars' and was at 119 Bridge Street (according to 1895 Slaters Directory of Warrington)."

 

So I presumed one was at the top of Bridge Street and one at the bottom hence the 'upper' and 'lower' but looking at Algy's map above it appears they were next door but one to each other.

 

There's also a Little Horseshoe and a Big Horseshoe on Algy's list and again they are pretty close to each other.

 

I wonder if maybe the same people owned the pubs with the same names and to show that they kept the two pub names almost identical for each.

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Algy , on your 1890 map the meat & fish market are easily seen but when did the general market develope at the back of the Barley Mow which is where i remember it from childhood ?

The Fish Market opened in 1856.

The general Market behind the Barley Mow opened in 1865.

 

There is an excellent 'Warrington Timeline' to be found here:-

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wire123/lists/history/index.htm

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Another note from 'outrages Fatal and Other', in the account of the murder of Betty Minshull in 1837 is a description of the landlady of the Barley Mow's bedroom "Her bedroom overlooked the little alley that served as a rear access to both pubs and which led from their back gates into the town's mug market" So it looks like there was a market behind the Barley Mow/Legh Arms for some time prior to the opening of the 1865 market. They surely can't have just sold mugs? :blink:

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Some markets do sell just crockery etc Tracy. There used to be a Pot Fair in Wigan where I live up to a few years ago and there is talk of it being re - instated.

 

Anyone remember the Royal Exchange near the old Market - it's nickname was Snuffy's - anyone know why?

 

Peridot :)

No idea why it was called Snuffy's, Peri, but I bet you remember walking through this doorway!.

1930sbarrelorganplayeroutsidetheRoyalExchangeintheoldMarketPlace.jpg

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Here's a painting of the Old Coffee House. In 1855 the proprietor, Joseph Astles, witnessed the will of one of my ancestors - Joseph Blinston one of the many Blinstons who ran the Stockton Heath Mill during the 19th C.

 

I'm not sure when the painting was done and whether Samuel came before or after Joseph. Can't remember where I got this image from - could've been Algy!

 

OldCoffeeHouse.jpg

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