MSC Photos 11

[algy]

Excavation For a Wall at Pomona Salford.

 

Dutch Fascine Workers at Mode Wheel, the Dutch were experts in carrying out Fascine work. Fascine is a rough bundle of brushwood used for strengthening an earthen structure, or making a path across uneven or wet terrain. Typical uses are protecting the banks of streams from erosion, covering marshy ground and so on, I this instance an innumerable amount was used to prevent canal bank slippage.

 

Fascine Workers atPartington.

 

Fascine Workes up to their knees in mud on the Manchester Ship Canal Excavation.

 

Ferry Steamer at Eastham Locks.

 

First Journey for the MSC Directors From Liverpool to Manchester.

 

Fisher Renwick Co. Clerk in his Office at Saltport, Weston by Runcorn.

 

The Freeze after the Flood at Latchford.

 

The Great Flood at Latchford.

 

The Thelwall Flood.

[Dizzy]

All very interesting Algy.

 

I've never heard of Fascine or Fascine Workers before.

 

Did they do that along the whole length of the canal or just on certain areas which they suspected might be more likely to erode ?

 

Also did they only do it to the expected water level or all the way down to the canal bed (prior to it being filled with water of course).

 

Having just briefly googled I believe they used to drive stakes in and then fastened bundles of willow sticks between them to create stability although as yet I haven't managed to find anything else out about it so just wondered if you may know more.

[algy]

As you say Dizz certain areas that were subject to erosion or natural landslip, as far as I am aware only up to or just below the water level, you are correct regarding the fastening down of the bundles, very similar to the fastening down of thatch on a roof.

 

 

All very interesting Algy.

 

I've never heard of Fascine or Fascine Workers before.

 

Did they do that along the whole length of the canal or just on certain areas which they suspected might be more likely to erode ?

 

Also did they only do it to the expected water level or all the way down to the canal bed (prior to it being filled with water of course).

 

Having just briefly googled I believe they used to drive stakes in and then fastened bundles of willow sticks between them to create stability although as yet I haven't managed to find anything else out about it so just wondered if you may know more.

[Dizzy]

How did they know which areas would be more likely to suffer from natural landslip though over time once the water was introduced ?

 

I guess it must have depended on the composition of the soil and makeup of the existing area or just the foremans eyes.

 

Could it have been that areas which were once more densly populated by trees and the likes would have been deemed to be more stable due to the existing tree roots etc whereas areas less sparse in natural growth would have needed a little helping hand. Or would it have been the other way around ?

 

Could that also be why so many trees were planted along the canal banks? Was this just for landscaping and pleasure on the eye or would they have created more strength either on their own or when their roots intertwined with the man made 'Fascine'.

 

Gosh my brain is going into overdrive now and perhaps I need to stop thinking so much

[asperity]

I don't know very much about the MSC (although I have sailed the length of it once on the Oarsman about 11 years ago) but I have sailed between Eastham and Stanlow Oil Docks several times and the land on either side (specially the river side), which hasn't been used by industry, is very much nature reserve. In fact at Stanlow Oil Docks, which are on the river side of the canal, it is common to see rabbits and foxes playing their little game "survival" :wink:

[algy]

How did they know which areas would be more likely to suffer from natural landslip though over time once the water was introduced ?

 

I guess it must have depended on the composition of the soil and makeup of the existing area or just the foremans eyes.

 

Could it have been that areas which were once more densly populated by trees and the likes would have been deemed to be more stable due to the existing tree roots etc whereas areas less sparse in natural growth would have needed a little helping hand. Or would it have been the other way around ?

 

Could that also be why so many trees were planted along the canal banks? Was this just for landscaping and pleasure on the eye or would they have created more strength either on their own or when their roots intertwined with the man made 'Fascine'.

 

Gosh my brain is going into overdrive now and perhaps I need to stop thinking so much

The fascine will have done it's job and rotted down, the soil of the bank will have compacted consolidated with natural vegetation adding to its strength and as you quite rightly say Dizz, trees will have put down roots with those same trees absorbing surplus water from the soil. Fascine would only be used where there was no natural strength in the ground such as sandstone or rock.

[Dizzy]

Thanks, you are so very knowleagable Algy and I don't know what I'd do without your brain at times

 

But now knowing that I'm pondering again.....

 

If well established trees and other growth is chopped down along the canal bank they clearly wont be absorbing water but the bit I'm pondering about is .... would the roots then die off and rot away thus making the canal bank less stable over time

 

Round here they are preparing land to buid more little boxes right on the canal bank where the old cement works was at Walton Locks and they've chopped all the large trees and other greenery down over the past few weeks.

 

I guess they will have thought about that though so why the blummin' heck am I pondering over it as I wont be living there anyway. It has spolt the green landscape and line of the canal though

[Dizzy]

I found this closeup image of the Fascine on the MSC banks.

 

[algy]

I found this closeup image of the Fascine on the MSC banks.

 

Here's a photo of R.A.Naylor's Wharf for you Dizz, The original is approx 1900x1300 I shall mail it to you.

[Dizzy]

Thanks Algy although it does look very familiar, infact idential to the one you sent me the other day but that is 1878 x 1247

 

Here's one of the rear of Naylor's which shows the old tidal Mersey river bed looking towards the Walton Locks/dock from Chester Road direction.

 

Naylors is on the right and you can see the old cement works on the opposite side of the lock inlet and St Thomas's Church in the distance (top centre). Dated around 1986 I believe.

 

[Peter T]

That doesn't make sense. St Thomas' church should be this side of the cement works or if the opposite view, the church should be on the right. Confused.com.

[algy]

That doesn't make sense. St Thomas' church should be this side of the cement works or if the opposite view, the church should be on the right. Confused.com.

Not an easy one to get your head round, I found the best way is to look at Google earth and imagine you are standing where the photographer took the shot from.

[Dizzy]

Peter... you are looking at the old River Mersey bed here.

 

The Mancehster Ship Canal is to the right of the Cement Works and Naylors on my pic and you can't see it.

 

St Thomas's Church is on the other side of the MSC to Naylors and the Cement Works.

 

So swimming down the MSC from Chester Road Swing Bridge Naylors would have been on your left.

 

You would then swim past the entrance to the inlet to Walton Locks/Docks

 

And where the little sticky out bit is (which is at bottom of Greenalls Avenus on the other side of the inlet is where you would have then swam past the Cement Works (which was demolished in 2005).

 

Clear as mud eh

 

I'll upload you some better pics tomorrow when I find them as I know you are not here very often s maybe dont know what changes are veing made but for now, as it's late, you'll just have to put up with these.

 

Here are the new flats currently being built which are nearly compete on the canal bank on the left are where Naylors used to be (taken a few days ago). All the houses are behind them and further down towards the inlet.

 

 

A little further down is the actual inlet from the MSC to the Walton Locks/Docks area.. the Cement works used to be on the sticky out bit towards the top of the picture after the inlet until it was demolished in 2005.

 

This area is where all enabling work is being carried out for the next batch of even more little boxes by another developer. NOTE THE LACK OF TREES NOW... ALL REMOVED !!

 

 

 

and worth comparing wih Algy's earlier image showing it being built so you can appreciate the depth, size and possilbe instability of it in the early days.

 

 

 

Looking from the other side of the inlet a few days ago here are the other 'boxes' the have built on the Naylors site

 

 

and just for the sake of it... here is the old cement works as it hit the deck in 2005 !

 

 

and once the dust had settled it was clear to see the JCB (which was stuck on a very odd angle with it's rear end up in the air for most of the day) after the Cement Works fell rather unexpectidely Like I say this was in 2005

 

 

 

and same JCB and same cement works from the old locks side a little later in the day still stuck

 

 

Bored... I guess so but maybe you wont ask again

 

Sorry if I've completely detracted from your topic Algy. I might move them to a new topic tomorrow as I'm feeling a litle embarrassed now but too tired not to post it after typing all that lot so now so I'll post it anyway and sort tomorrow ... sorry

[algy]

Not a problem Dizz, leave them here if you wish as they all relate to the topic, plus I'm sure Peter has a better understanding of where the area displayed in the black & white photo refers to, I know I have.

[Dizzy]

Gosh had I been drinking last night as my post was a bit OTT wasn't it

[algy]

Gosh had I been drinking last night as my post was a bit OTT wasn't it

No! it seemed ok to me, although I tend to go on a bit if I post after 1030 on a Sunday night after returning from quaffing a not so quiet quart. :grin:

[Dizzy]

[Peter T]

Ok, my apologies. I was looking at it from the Stag swing bridge, which made it look as if the negative was the wrong way round.

Nice piccies though Diz.

PS. I should be back by April if I get sorted by then.

[Dizzy]

I must remember to go on holiday in April incase you potter over this way to see the building works progressing and spot me with my camera

 

I wish they would shut up and stop dropping things into the containers with their JCS's this morning though as its making my floor and windows vibrate. Why cant they use a grabber and PLACE them in Whinge over until they start moving all that broken up concrete too

[algy]

I must remember to go on holiday in April incase you potter over this way to see the building works progressing and spot me with my camera

 

I wish they would shut up and stop dropping things into the containers with their JCS's this morning though as its making my floor and windows vibrate. Why cant they use a grabber and PLACE them in Whinge over until they start moving all that broken up concrete too

JCB's Dizz. :grin:

[Dizzy]

Ooops.... the vibrations must have moved my keyboard as I was typing

[Peter T]

Have they done anything about the area between the new build/bridge and the back of the bungalows?

[Wireboy]

The picture looking at the old river bed is a great one. You can see how much that patch off river regularly needed dredging. A bit over grown now.

 

The bridge over this patch off river on Chester road, did that used to be a swing bridge? So there were effectively two swing bridges on Chester road. One for the river then the current one for the ship canal. I'm sure I heard that once before but can't find anything on it.

[algy]

The picture looking at the old river bed is a great one. You can see how much that patch off river regularly needed dredging. A bit over grown now.

 

The bridge over this patch off river on Chester road, did that used to be a swing bridge? So there were effectively two swing bridges on Chester road. One for the river then the current one for the ship canal. I'm sure I heard that once before but can't find anything on it.

No WB there never was a swing bridge there, you may find this hard to believe but this was the original bridge spanning the river to Walton Lock, some time in the 1960's they strengthened the bottom of the bridge and removed the top girder work. Built in 1893, the MSC was completed the following year.

[Wireboy]

Thanks for clearing that up Algy.

 

I have seen that picture before years ago and must have mistaken it for a swing bridge. I knew the bridge had changed considerably from the bridge we all know now.