Eagle Posted May 24, 2007 Report Share Posted May 24, 2007 Given that there were loads of scousers inside the ground without tickets and others wishing to join them, did the baton wielding CS spraying Greek police avert another Hillsborough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 I detect a hint of sarcasm with your post Eagle. You know as well as anyone that Hillsborough was caused by the British Police, The fact that Poo fans were present at all these events is merely a coincidence. :angel: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianR Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 You dont want to go down this path. I was at Hillsbrough in the pens right behind the goal. To compare Athens and the same is in very poor taste and personally offensive to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted May 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 There was no sarcasm intended actually;I was merely making a comparison between two similar scenarios with vastly different outcomes.There is a distict possibility that the 'violence' from the Greek police prevented additional fans joining those inside and causing another overcrowding situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianR Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 Fa from it. The design of the stadium with its open concourses wouldnt have caused it. There were no turnstiles, just gates which could be opened and incompetent arrangements around thos egates  Hillsborough was a victorian relic with little crowd control. I dont think the two stand up to any close comparison.  I think there was more chanc eof an accident at Lyon was it where again fans were blamed.  Add to this, Bastia, Rangers, Bolton, etc where fans have died and been blamed rather than the systems or satdia, yet years on we accept that stadia and systems did in fact cause them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 Originally posted by Eagle: There was no sarcasm intended actually;I was merely making a comparison between two similar scenarios with vastly different outcomes.There is a distict possibility that the 'violence' from the Greek police prevented additional fans joining those inside and causing another overcrowding situation. You are of course perfectly correct. If a stadium is intended to safely hold 70000 fans (regardless of design) and 20,000 turn up without tickets and force entry then some form of disaster is bound to happen. The issuing of tickets even limited to 17000 for each club was handled by Liverpool FC in a way that beggars belief. However the fans who turn up without tickets with the sole intention of getting in for free don't actually give a toss for Liverpool FC, the Greek Authorities, the police or even fellow Poo supporters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianR Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 Garbage. Design was one of the key reason Hilsborough happened. Too many people in to small a place and actually directed into that space. Â The olympic stadium has sweeping wide concourses which would not allow the build up of people. Once through the original "entrance" the concourse would cause a natural dispersal of people. One university post hillsborough compared the flow of people to that of a liquid. Once forced thru a small gap dispersal is automatic. Â Further entrance to each section was controlled and therefore unlikley to cause further crowding. Â Also the numbers you quote are far from accurate. Â Â yes every club has a "element" of unsavory characters, but to compare the events of Wednesday to a disater the size of hilsborough is fundamentally wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trojan Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 The Olympic stadium was designed in 1979 so its nearly 30 years old. Just because it has sweeping concourses doesn't mean that an endless number of fans can enter the stadium without the potential for an accident or incident. I don't think anyone is comparing what happened at Hillsborough with what happened at Athens apart from the similarity in allowing thousands of extra fans to get into a stadium without paying and thus posssibly affecting those already inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted May 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 It is interesting to see that criticism of scousers is now 'fundamentally wrong'. Adrian remove the blinkers! The main similarlity between the two games is the actions of the **** who were determined to get into both stadia. Other failures combined with this resulted in the dreadful loss of life at Hillsborough. My opinion is that the action of the Greek police was a possible reason why the problem didn't escalate into something similar; I am sure a baton across the head is a better deterrent than a polite request. Â [ 25.05.2007, 17:39: Message edited by: DS ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 Well maybe yes, maybe no. Â For major competition do they not have an excusion zone around the ground? Â I mean so that if you don't have a valid ticket you can't get with a certain distance from the ground? Â I'm sure this has been done successfully at the World Cup or European Championships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianR Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 No blinkers, just fact. Â Simon Gass, the British ambassador to Greece, told BBC Radio Five Live: "The organisers had a plan which involved three cordons to try to ensure that people who didn't have tickets were not able to get into the stadium. Â "Clearly there was some element of breakdown where those fake tickets appeared to be legitimate - that's something Uefa must look at. Â "The vast majority of fans with proper tickets got in but even if a small minority did not, that's not satisfactory." Â Key points - small minority - vast majority. Storm in a tea cup. The offence was taken by way of reference to something clearly far more significant. Â [ 25.05.2007, 11:52: Message edited by: Adrian ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted May 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 "some element of breakdown" is a euphemism for 'bloody shambles' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trojan Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 A 'cunning' plan :thinker: Now where have I heard that before. Three cordons didn't prevent 'many' from jumping barriers, shoving police and stewards out of the way to get into a stadium for free. I think Eagle is correct in summing them up as ****. Â [ 25.05.2007, 17:41: Message edited by: DS ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 Do you think the same situation would of occured if it had been held in the UK? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted May 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 Matty, I believe that Sheffield is part of the UK :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianR Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 No chance - better stadiums and more organised. Tickets are better distributed and also more fraud proof. Didnt germany embed micro chips in theirs for the World Cup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 We can blame the fans, but experienced police forces in whichever country except Italy, deal with the problems. If they hold these events in naive countries where they think football "fans" will behave in a responsible manner, surely some guidance and checks by the footballing powers should take place. Â As for the ticket forgeries, this was public knowledge long before the game, so that is a failure on part of the police for not stopping those who had them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 Originally posted by Eagle: Matty, I believe that Sheffield is part of the UK :confused: I also believe it was in the past, and this and other events that the British authorities have learned from. I am in no way condoning the fans that attempted to gain access to the stadium without a ticket, but if Man Utd had of beaten Milan in the semi two sets of passionate supporters would of been trying to get in.  The only saving grace was that Milans supporters travel in far fewer numbers than British fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trojan Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 I think it is high time that certain scousers stop pointing the finger at Police, the authorities, the design of stadiums, other supporters, the weather or anything else and start looking at themselves for once. Forged tickets has nothing to do with it. I feel sorry for those who paid over the odds for a ticket that was in effect worthless (God know where they get the money from), but those who had no intention of buying a ticket and just stampeded there way in and then bragged about it on the evening news are nothing more than scum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 You should not tar everyone with the same brush. Â So I would like to hear how you would prevent the problem involving the minority of people but affecting the majority? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trojan Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 I am not tarring everyone with the same brush. I said certain scousers. And I know that it isn't easy to stop, although it doesn't appear to happen very often at other major sporting events. The point is, as Eddie sarcastically mentioned, whenever Liverpool are involved it is always someone elses fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matty Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 Ok, fair enough. Â I was not trying to blame anyone else, when something happens it is usually not just caused by one set of circumstances/individuals. Â On this occasion, the 'fans' who entered the groung without a ticket & in my opinion at least, the Greek Authorities who let them in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 Trojan, Are you saying that the police behaviour in Milan was the fault of the Man.U fans? :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobshaw235 Posted May 25, 2007 Report Share Posted May 25, 2007 football hooligans are not a new thing,when City last won a european trophy the European Cup Winners Cup against the mighty Gornik Zabrize,Gornik and City fans spit on the trams and threw their Clogs at each other and if that wasnt enough tickets on the black market were trading at half a crown each. Lighten up guys its only football as Bill Shankly once said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egbert Posted May 26, 2007 Report Share Posted May 26, 2007 Fact of the matter is, if football fans consisted of civilised human beings there would be no need for a single policeman at the game! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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