Frying pan or into the fire.?

[Observer II]

As in the US, we have a two Party electoral system, which basically delivers the same old, same old uni-party career politicians.   So no surprise Labour has won the two latest bi-elections on a low turn out.  But why do voters keep voting for them ? Why don't they vote for a Party with policies to actually deal with the issues we face ?    

[Confused52]

Because the voters have realised that what ever policies a party wants that are not the status quo the civil service, the unions, the courts and the broadcasters will bully their way to stopping any change. The Left wing installation into every public institution has worked, real politics is currently dormant.

[ninearches]

It is pretty bad how the Tories have moved into position of seemingly haemorraging votes & the last few elections have been by-elections ,but they are up against one of the worst Labour alternatives with the Starmer gang.

The Tories need to pull themselves together if they want to win the next election.

[Observer II]

The problem imo Dave, all Parties have access to focus groups and opinion polls, so they know what the majority of voters want; but their ideology trumps pragmatism and populism into non delivery.   EG. Brexit not delivered,  immigration control not delivered etc etc.    😠   I agree Con, but again, that's about getting a grip, by sacking any woke opposition within the state apparatus, and hiring folk who are on message. 😠

[Lt Kije]

3 hours ago, Confused52 said:

Because the voters have realised that what ever policies a party wants that are not the status quo the civil service, the unions, the courts and the broadcasters will bully their way to stopping any change. The Left wing installation into every public institution has worked, real politics is currently dormant.

I voted in favour of a change to the voting system, Did you????

[Observer II]

When was that ?  Was it a referendum ?   The only referendum I recall, was the one on Brexit, and that's basically been ignored by politicians ever since.       The easiest and quickest way to PR, would be to change the House of Lords to an elected chamber,  of 100 seats, elected in direct proportion to the vote at a General Election; which would be a start.   

[Confused52]

2 hours ago, Lt Kije said:

I voted in favour of a change to the voting system, Did you????

Certainly not. I cannot think of any reason to change my mind either, so don't bother. Minorities who want to introduce instability favour PR. We have enough of a problem with factions in large parties and that doesn't go away with PR either. 

Obs, it was in 2011 on the Alternate Vote system, it isn't PR but running the election would be a nightmare for UK local authorities. It has the possibilities of untraceable errors to a much greater extent than FPTP No, PR would not be a start it is a constitutional nonsense which effectively means the two houses have equal moral power because both have the exact same mandate from the voters.

[Observer II]

3 minutes ago, Confused52 said:

 

Obs, it was in 2011 on the Alternate Vote system, it isn't PR but running the election would be a nightmare for UK local authorities. It has the possibilities of untraceable errors to a much greater extent than FPTP No, PR would not be a start it is a constitutional nonsense which effectively means the two houses have equal moral power because both have the exact same mandate from the voters.

I don't subscribe to PR for Constituency MPs,  as FPTP returns a representative for a geographical area IE Constituency.  If the HoL , which is an appointed chamber, having no pretence to democracy or the people, is in need of modernisation and by electing it proportional to the vote at a GE, it would have a democratic base.  Now it would probably carry more democratic legitimacy than the Commons, so could form the Executive of Government, while the Commons forms the legislature.  The fact is, our current system is antiquated and not fit for purpose imo.    

[Lt Kije]

On 10/20/2023 at 6:05 PM, Confused52 said:

Certainly not. I cannot think of any reason to change my mind either, so don't bother. Minorities who want to introduce instability favour PR. We have enough of a problem with factions in large parties and that doesn't go away with PR either. 

Obs, it was in 2011 on the Alternate Vote system, it isn't PR but running the election would be a nightmare for UK local authorities. It has the possibilities of untraceable errors to a much greater extent than FPTP No, PR would not be a start it is a constitutional nonsense which effectively means the two houses have equal moral power because both have the exact same mandate from the voters.

instibility???

I want a system that reflects what people voted for, democracy!!

[Observer II]

So majority rules then ?    Majority voted for Brexit.  Majority don't want migrants. etc    😑

[Lt Kije]

3 hours ago, Observer II said:

So majority rules then ?    Majority voted for Brexit.  Majority don't want migrants. etc    😑

How do you know the majority don't want immigration, Just because you and your right-wing friends are vocal, does not make you a majority

[Observer II]

Oh forgot, you only quote opinion polls when you agree with them. Your in a minority and it's killing your pig.   😄

[Lt Kije]

15 hours ago, Observer II said:

Oh forgot, you only quote opinion polls when you agree with them. Your in a minority and it's killing your pig.   😄

I did not post any opinion polls

[Observer II]

No wonder, they don't agree with you.😄

[Lt Kije]

22 hours ago, Observer II said:

Oh forgot, you only quote opinion polls when you agree with them. Your in a minority and it's killing your pig.   😄

Can you repost the opinion poll I thought I posted😛

[Observer II]

You didn't, there's nothing in the polls, beside a Labour victory, that you'll like.   😑

[Lt Kije]

On 10/23/2023 at 10:08 PM, Observer II said:

Oh forgot, you only quote opinion polls when you agree with them. Your in a minority and it's killing your pig.   😄

I was answering this from you

[Observer II]