Mary Posted October 15, 2007 Report Share Posted October 15, 2007 Yes just reiterating !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robot Posted October 17, 2007 Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 The Turks held up the Armada? Quite what they were supposed to be doing off any part of the Spanish Coast i dont know- because i think any movement would have drawn the attention of the french and the venetians- who werent exactly friendly to the turks. One could make a case for mentioning that many of the Spanish sailors would have been Moors..therefore casting them in an unfavourable light as potential invaders! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goonerman Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 I posted on 10/10/2007: Â Not unlike the attempt to give Turks the credit for beating the Spanish Armada. The main culprit, apart from Drake's fireships, of the defeat of Spain in 1588, was the weather! Â Now if it was something like a study on how there was an extensive Black community in London and Liverpool during the reign of Elizabeth I, leading to the Queen issuing racist legislation against them 'taking over', as in the book 'Black England', now that is good revisionism which is far more sensible. But that isn't really re-writing History, it was always there, it just needs a little more noticing. (The Black community in Toxteth, for example, pre-dates the Carribean emigration to the UK in the 1950s by centuries, and indeed, Shakespeare had a gay lover in the 1590s who was a black actor working in London. (Or should I say Southwark, as Southwark was a separate town in those days.) Â Proves my point: Â Wow, never seen that before! Wow, never seen that before! Wow, never seen that before! Wow, never seen that before! Wow, never seen that before! Â But you are all so selective. Â So just like the weather which was the main conqueror of the Armada, that was so much wind. Â [ 18.10.2007, 23:31: Message edited by: GUNNER ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywonka Posted October 18, 2007 Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 Proves my point  Mine too.  Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2007 :sleeping: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 Never mind. Â [ 19.10.2007, 02:19: Message edited by: Mary ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goonerman Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 Nothing useful to say on the more sound stuff in relation to ethnic minority involvement in British History, such as the Black presence in London and Liverpool considerably pre-dating the 1950s West Indian influx???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goonerman Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 As for poking my nose in, Obbs' correct statement, "..providing "the principle" is to search for truth rather than distort it!" Â and Mary's correct plea, "What is wrong with telling the whole truth?" Â That's what provoked the 'poking my nose in', with me insisting that this be applied across the board to absolutely everything under the sun, and why I attacked post-modernism because post-modernism thinks it is inclusive and truthful, when in reality it distorts and excludes and is inconsistent. Â Then I swung it back to the original topic about rewriting History for including ethnic minorities. Which shows my firmly evidence driven approach. Â Which brings me back to... what about the question posed by me in my post prior to this one? Not that I expect a constructive, positive answer from any of you. Â [ 19.10.2007, 22:35: Message edited by: GUNNER ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 Ok - a few posts back I said never mind - it was after I had said a few things then decided to recant. After that last barb I am through being a sweet nice person Goonerman - your need to be right at all times is so constant that no one wants to play; you go on and on and I for one am quite tired of your need to be superior to us all. Â And before you say you were just joking - don't bother because I do think we both know that you were not! :redmad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywonka Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 (((Brevity))) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayC Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 Hi Willy. Â How was Jersey, did you go and say hello to my Sister, hope you had a good time it was a pleasure meeting you at the beer fest. Â John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywonka Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 Had a fine time John, thanks for asking. Â Only sisters I came across though were those of mercy. Â I wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 Did Robin Hood have any black persons in his band? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 Very droll Observer, very droll. Â Â Unfortunately the authorities in those days didn't have the "benefit" of CCTV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 Caught a brief glimps of TVs Robin Hood; and thought they'd wrote Trevour MacDonald into it?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywonka Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 A dramatised account of a legendary figure? Â Hardly history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 But the uneducated think it is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywonka Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 Ah... Â Poor "the uneducated". Â Let's just hope they're not as bristling with prejudices as the more enlightened amongst us, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goonerman Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 There is a dark skinned bloke amongst Henry VIII's trumpeters from the 1512 State Opening of Parliament, who is thought to be Moorish, though he looks more like a Black African to me. Â Mary's reaction to me is off-kilter as she knows very well I am motivated by a love of History to be accurate and exacting, just as people learning History are trained to be. I've no motive to want to be 'superior', I'm too focussed on the topics I contribute to for me to think that way. All I want to do is do justice to whatever the topic is, nothing more. Keep the emotiing, ad hominems and stonewalling tactics out of it, please. Â Back to the topic, Blacks didn't live in England until the 16th century as far as I know. Italians and Jews certainly lived in England in the Middle Ages, and for obvious reasons, the French, being the rulers. Â And with that I will leave this thread. I know where I'm not welcome. :blitzed: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted October 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 You do have your rational moments Gun, and that seems to have been one of them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goonerman Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 I'll mischievously return to say  THANK YOU OBBS!   Actually, it's because I have a nice colour pic of the procession in several of my books, Alison Weir's one for a kick-off.  Ahh, the soap opera of shifting alliances in the pantomime that is... WARRINGTON WORLDWIDE.  The hand, errrr, slap of History, or should I say, Hysteria, is upon us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywonka Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 Gooner, don't be silly, I, for one, enjoy your presence here. Â Essentially, I think we're all saying the same thing. Â Just not worked out what it is yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willywonka Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 See? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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