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Unbelievable -


Observer II
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Over 700 migrants, some known criminals, have been released into the UK community, after tribunals ordered their release on a point of law.  Why are we even detaining them, surely they should be deported as soon as they are caught, no ifs or buts.  Come on Priti - get a grip.    😠     😷

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It would seem that the government is being hamstrung by the Civil Service - again. Government ministers can order their departments to carry out their instructions but if the civil servants want to hold things up a bit to make the minister's life awkward then they can and do. Yes Minister was an instruction manual!

In the same vein, ministers are being held accountable for Coronavirus testing not meeting the targets set by those self same ministers - as if the ministers were doing the tests personally and not PHE and the sainted NHS. Very naive of the government to set targets in the first place, and even more naive to trust public servants to meet them.

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I don't argue with your thoughts on the Civil Service;  but I think this one arises out of decisions being made by appeals tribunals, that basically argue that migrants can't be held in detention above a given period.    Well in that case, why aren't the UKBF taking them to France when they get "rescued", which would sort the problem out ?   The situation with immigration defies belief.   😠

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It's all part of the same pattern though isn't it? The government being held to blame for the inaction of public servants, like the UKBF. The government being held to blame for the number of Covid deaths rather than PHE and the NHS. The NHS and PHE have made a valiant attempt at laying the blame on the government by saying it was the government's fault that the NHS was short of ventilators and PPE, and that testing (which doesn't actually do anything to save lives) should have started months ago (when there weren't any reliable tests anyway). So it's all a case of everyone in positions of authority developing sloping shoulders when any responsibility is laid on them. It all begs the question as to why, when government seems incapable of doing anything right, when private health care works better than state run health care in other countries, do people want more government and are so against any form of re-organisation of health care, introducing similar systems as are used in other more successful countries, in this country.

I can see that I may be laying myself open to abuse for daring to suggest that the NHS has done anything wrong, but I'm not criticising the doctors, nurses, ancillary staff of the NHS but rather I'm saying that the NHS and PHE are bloated bureaucracies that are more interested in preserving themselves than saving the people they are supposed to be serving - us.

Anyone wishing to throw mud at me please form an orderly queue, always maintaining the required 2 metres social distancing.

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I think we can agree on blaming the bureaucrats, be they in the civil service or NHS; but at the end of the day it's for their political masters to get a grip of them, even at the risk of being accused of bullying, like Priti Patel !    EG:  A firm instruction to the UKBF to deposit all "rescued" migrants in France NOT the UK,  and any found in the UK immediately tranfered back to France.  Failure to comply = immediate sack.   If the current law gets in the way - then they should change it, that's what they are elected for.   Meanwhile,  they are now talking about quarantining all flights into the UK;  this should have applied from day one.  The saga of PPE;  there was a stock pile; but it was allowed past it's used by date;  and we were fiddling around trying to source it from abroad, instead of using UK suppliers.  No doubt there will be an Inquiry, the BAME community are already asking for one into their plight;  but at the end of the day, we'll get weasel words about learning lessons etc.  When it comes to pandemics, there's only one thing to know and do, that is to go into a complete and comprehensive lock down and lock out, in order to nip it in the bud.   We didn't, and now we're in a mess.    Greece did it, and has only suffered 150 deaths out of less than 2,000 confirmed cases.    😷

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Obs,

Please be a bit realistic. Since we do have to trade with other countries and this is a PANdemic not an epidemic your single country lockdown idea does not work in the medium term at all - as South Korea are warning. Your simple solutions do not always work I am afraid. Where does the story that the stockpile was past its use-by date come from because I thought it was the wrong stuff as a result of not knowing the nature of the eventual disease when the NHS pandemic stock was created due to a shocking lack of 20:20 hindsight!

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Obs, you reinforce my point that government is incapable of running anything. If you want something done properly get a private sector firm to do it. If they don't perform at least you can sack them a lot more easily than you can a load of civil servants with fireproof jobs.

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18 minutes ago, Confused52 said:

Obs,

Please be a bit realistic. Since we do have to trade with other countries and this is a PANdemic not an epidemic your single country lockdown idea does not work in the medium term at all - as South Korea are warning. Your simple solutions do not always work I am afraid. Where does the story that the stockpile was past its use-by date come from because I thought it was the wrong stuff as a result of not knowing the nature of the eventual disease when the NHS pandemic stock was created due to a shocking lack of 20:20 hindsight!

Proof is in the eating - Greece locked down immediately only 150 deaths.   😷     the stockpiling allegations were on CH4 news,  plus the many attempts to import faulty PPE from Turkey and China.  😷   Not hindsight,  basic common sense -  isolation protects people, if done early enough.  😷   The only realism I may lack, is not recognising just how wet and weak our politicians are,  and their total inability to plan or prepare for anything.    😠

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19 minutes ago, asperity said:

Obs, you reinforce my point that government is incapable of running anything. If you want something done properly get a private sector firm to do it. If they don't perform at least you can sack them a lot more easily than you can a load of civil servants with fireproof jobs.

You mean like the USA ? !   😄  😷

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16 minutes ago, Observer II said:

You mean like the USA ? !   😄  😷

Whatever that means (I haven't a clue what you're alluding to).

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45 minutes ago, Observer II said:

Proof is in the eating - Greece locked down immediately only 150 deaths.   😷     the stockpiling allegations were on CH4 news,  plus the many attempts to import faulty PPE from Turkey and China.  😷   Not hindsight,  basic common sense -  isolation protects people, if done early enough.  😷   The only realism I may lack, is not recognising just how wet and weak our politicians are,  and their total inability to plan or prepare for anything.    😠

I see you chose to respond as if the hindsight referred to lockdown when it was about the kind of PPE. You should try engaging in conversation sometime.

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31 minutes ago, asperity said:

Whatever that means (I haven't a clue what you're alluding to).

He doesn't see the difference between the NHS contracting functions to private firms under its control and there being no NHS at all. It is a political position of some kind. 

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PPE should encompass any pathogen, when planning, you prepare for worst case scenario; which, to be fair, they actually did following the 2016 exercise; then forgot about updating the stock and not preparing for local sourcing.    

6 minutes ago, Confused52 said:

I see you chose to respond as if the hindsight referred to lockdown when it was about the kind of PPE. You should try engaging in conversation sometime.😷

 

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7 minutes ago, Confused52 said:

He doesn't see the difference between the NHS contracting functions to private firms under its control and there being no NHS at all. It is a political position of some kind. 

Think we all know the difference between contracted services and in house provision;  they are more expensive in the long run.    😷

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16 minutes ago, Observer II said:

Think we all know the difference between contracted services and in house provision;  they are more expensive in the long run.    😷

PHE and the NHS refusing to use private labs for testing means testing can't keep up. In this case money doesn't come into it.

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The Corvid scenario requires expediency,  in which case I would agree with you;  it's for the State to harness all means available within the Nation to deliver on a strategy, unlike the attempts to buy in faulty PPE from China and Turkey.  Likewise, we've finished up sending test samples to the US, cos we don't have the capacity in the UK.  😷

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Not just unbelievable, but getting dafter by the day -  Boris relaxes "stay home" to "stay alert", which apparently means you can now go to places providing you comply with the 2 metre rule,  which in turn means you can't use public transport.  But forget that trip to Scotland or Wales, as they are still on full lock down, so no crossing the border.  Meanwhile, with record crossings of the Channel border by illegal migrants and a concession to France not to subject their visitors to a UK quarantine,  it seems foreigners have more liberty within the UK than the Brits. Meanwhile,  Manchester Airport has come up with a 2 metre spacing plan for passengers to board an aircraft, where they'll be sat within 6" of other passengers - go figure that one out.  With this exasperating stupidity, we could go all the way, and offer free, one way Cruises to all OAPs, to escape the insanity permanently, and escape the cost of their funeral by burial at sea !    💀😷💀

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Can't do that Obs. MARPOL Annex V prohibits dumping at sea which includes dead bodies. 😉

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17 minutes ago, Observer II said:

Dafter by the day - seems the Supreme Court has ruled that illegal migrants cannot be deported to Countries with a health care system that is inferior to the NHS - time to scrap the Supreme Court or at least it's Libtard Judges.     😠

Would that be the same NHS which the immigrants have no right to use?

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Some countries, e.g. France and Germany to name but two, reportedly have health services better than the NHS. So send all illegal immigrants there, job done.

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Seems the EU has stopped the exemption from quarantine in the UK for French arrivals,  saying that such an exemption has to apply to all EU States.  Just another example of how HMG are still not taking this crisis seriously ;  a lock down must equal a lock out, with no one entering the UK without specific and special permission, and those that do, should be health checked and quarantined within the Airport boundaries and only released following a test.  Meanwhile, the UKBF needs to be ordered to tow any and all migrant craft back to France, and any found in the UK should be immediately deported.   😠     😷

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