The US Government shutdown

[asperity]

Is it hurting?

 

[Dizzy]

    Good one

[Lt Kije]

Very good Asp

[Mary]

Doesn't bother me.

[Lt Kije]

Trouble is it will bother everyone unless the tea party get real.

[Bazj]

Don't bother me either..... I'm just waiting for my EU referendum (which may now be sooner rather than later if one Tory MP gets his way)

[asperity]

I see you really have your finger on the pulse of US politics Lt Kije (not!)

[Lt Kije]

Asp, the republicans and the tea party lost the election did they not, and it is only the tea party part of the Republican Party that are holding out, on an issue they lost, Obama Care, I think it is you that has not got a clue, what is going on in America.

[Lt Kije]

Asp

 

This might help

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24388669

[asperity]

The so called Obamacare legislation was passed when Congress had an overwhelming Democrat majority. This majority was overturned at the last election, mainly because of the electorate's dislike of the same legislation.

 

Normally when a budget impasse is reached (and it has happened several times before under different administrations) the President and Congress have negotiated an agreement. President Obama is refusing to negotiate or even acknowledge the flaws in the Obamacare legislation (it is even opposed by the Unions, who were behind the concept in the first place!)

 

But you will get your information from the BBC which has always had its head stuck up St Barry's backside.

[Lt Kije]

Obama care passed, to hold it to ran sum is completely wrong, even most of the republicans agree, just the hard right of the Republicsn party holding democracy to ransom, ad you said Obama care passed the vote. It is about 10 republicans holding all of America to ransom, Obama care will at least bring American health care into the present. They lost the vote on Obama care!!!!, the only good news is the Americans are quite rightly blaming the Republicans.

[asperity]

The Republican majority in the House of Representatives is asking for the funding for Obamacare to be delayed for a year in order to deliver an affordable budget. The Democrat led Senate however is refusing to negotiate.

 

Doesn't it seem odd to you, Lt Kije, that your maths don't add up? After all if all the Democrats and majority of the Republicans want to go ahead with the funding then the minority "hard right" of the Republicans would be outvoted. Or is it a strange sort of logarithmic voting system over there?

[Rockcutting]

Does this really affect us?

Isn't the Tory Lib (totally bollocks) reformation of the NHS of more interest to people living in Warrington?

http://www.kingsfund.org.uk/topics/nhs-reform

[asperity]

Well it could affect the global financial markets, so yes.

[Lt Kije]

Asp, it's a small minority of republicans, most republicans accept they lost the vote Obama care, a very small minority of right wing republicans don't and are trying to wreck it, most republicans including the house speaker think it's wrong.

[asperity]

You aren't bothering to read what I posted are you? If it's only a small minority of Republicans then why haven't they been outvoted?

[asperity]

Public opinion in the US is very much divided on Obamacare, with a lot of people concerned about some of the flaws in the system.

 

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/health_care_law

 

 

So it's not just "a tiny minority of Republican politicians" who aren't happy with it.

[Lt Kije]

Asp you need a two thirds majority, to get it through, not quite enough, it is a small minority of the Republicans that are holding America to ransom ie The Tea Party dipsticks, Obama care was passed.

[asperity]

So a small minority of the House of Representatives is representing 50% of the electorate in their distrust of Obamacare? Doesn't seem very democratic somehow.

 

Tea Party dipsticks? Are you American Lt Kije?

[asperity]

How your favourite newspaper (the loss making Grauniad) sees things Lt Kije:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/01/healthcare-obamacare-affordable-care-act

 

Doesn't the government have a duty to address the concerns of the electorate? Or should they just force the electorate to do what the government wants them to? Sound like a dictatorship to me.

[Lt Kije]

Have you read it, they don't like the act but they like whats in it, they don't like it because its called Obama care, the article is basically saying they have no idea, as the waters have been mudded, but you keep ignoring the fact that it was passed, and belatedly trying to nail it back on to something else is total crap, and it is a small % of republicans holding everyone to ransom 

[asperity]

You really do share Obs' simplistic world view. Things are never simply black or white as you seem to imagine, hence your dismissal of people you disagree with as Tea Party, or UKIP nutcases (are you really Call me Dave in disguise?) The legislation was forced through without receiving a single Republican vote, which is unusual if not unique for such a significant economic change in the law. Also the Bill was large and complex and the timetable for it was such that it was impossible for most of the legislators to have read it. In fact Senator Cruz, who is at the forefront opposing Obamacare, rebuked the Senate Democrat leader Harry Reid because he had actually read it while Reid had not (a bit like our politicians and Maastricht and Lisbon treaties!)  The Speaker of the House of Representatives even admitted that “We have to pass this Bill so you can know what’s in it.”

 

So it is only since the legislation has been passed that the American public have been able to see what a lash up it is. People who had adequate health insurance before are now finding that they will be expected to pay two or three times as much for less cover, and that they are being forced to take cover for things they don't need. Employees are being laid off or put on part time hours as employers avoid having to pay health care costs because of the provisions of Obamacare. As I mentioned before, the Unions are taking a stand against the legislation because they see their members being victimised in a way that they hadn't catered for when they were pushing for this legislation. The only people who are going to gain from this, apart from the insurance companies, are those who wouldn't have taken out health insurance before, and won't now, the politicians and other public sector workers who have been given exemption from having to comply, and the wealthy who never needed it in the first place. The big losers are the middle class taxpayers as always.

[Lt Kije]

Yours is the simplistic view sadly Asp, a few right wing republicans should not hold a Country to ransom!!

[asperity]

The President should be willing to negotiate with Congress. He would seem to be the one using bully boy tactics to force his will onto the people. And you still haven't explained your arithmetic. If a two thirds majority is required then that would mean that at least one third is opposed which sort of gives the lie to your "few" Republicans idea.

[Lt Kije]

Why should the President be willing to negotiate, Asp, his Bill was passed, it's history or should be!!!,