asperity Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 A democratic dictatorship :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 I think Lenin called it "the dictatorship of the proletariat" :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 You are the proletariat Obs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 Teachers start at £21,000 and upto £31,000 at scale point 6 (outside London) with an average pension of £9,800 compared to Train drivers £42,527 Public service administrative professionals £49,333 Production, works and maintenance managers £39,994 Recycling and refuse disposal managers £35,457 Senior officials in local government £36,812 Quality And Customer Care Managers £34,787 Considering all the crap that is thrown at them by government, ofsted inspectors, know everything parents, and all the 'little angels' that they try and teach, then it's worth every penny. Sorry asp, by the time it took me to post this you had already posted a link, although the £33k for Teaching professionals incorrect. Teachers pay scales Sep 2011. Wolfie.... why are you comparing teachers with managers jobs? Compare them with nurses, electricians, refuse collectors etc. deputy head teachers or heads of departments would be classed as managerial surely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 So the moral of the story is that Baz is in favour of long-term teacher strikes rather than one day strikes (which ironically have been decided to minimise disruption). Maybe you could quit your job so that you can become a teacher since you envy the benefits so much. How much is the average UK salary? I want to know! oh you must be Kijes brother!! I said I didn't want teachers to be able to strike at all.... that they should have that right taken away by law.... I was also merely pointing out that for any strike to be effective, it needs to be a long term one; however the amount of money any striker loses will never be surpassed by what they gain as a result of strike action. and as for quitting my job.... why would I want to do that? I am happy doing what I am doing and there isn't any envy for the benefits of teaching; merely pointing out that the teachers get more than most other workers and as such should be bloody grateful for those benefits. Maybe if they were only paid when they were in front of a class teaching they might realise what they do actually yhave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 Baz, if you take away the right to strike you must replace it with something, what would you replace it with,? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 8, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 Nothing.... they shouldn't be able to strike and if they care about the kids as much as they often say they do, they wouldn't strike anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 Wolfie.... why are you comparing teachers with managers jobs? Since when was a train driver managerial? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 The Police cannot strike, they have an independent Police pay board, The government don't like it and are trying to get rid of it, If you take away the right to strike you have to put pay and conditions into an independent body, it is the only way to do it. As you can see with the Police at the moment they are heading into dispute with the government, as they are messing with the boards independence on pay and conditions. Would you trust the government to sort out your pay and conditions, with no right to reply,? Somehow I doubt it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadako Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 I would love to get paid for just teaching in the class. That's the best bit. I don't know what your suggesting by that comment...do you mean that we only do that for an hour a day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 So who's getting the biggest crumbs out of this crumb fight?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 The sparrows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 So where are they in the pecking order?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted April 8, 2012 Report Share Posted April 8, 2012 Just behind the starlings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 "The largest teachers' union is considering taking legal action against the Government's free schools policy claiming it could damage children's education." but its ok for the teachers and their union to damage childrens education by striking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Yes it is Baz, what else can they do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 They could either act like the "profession" they claim to be and get on with the job of teaching and leave the politics and the running of schools to those with the responsiblity of doing so, they could work within the system to make their views know at the consultation stage but accept the decision when the decision makers make it (crew members DO NOT drive the ship!) - or they could decide they don't want to work for an employer they have no faith in and go work for someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Or they could pay the employers for the privilage of working for them - not forgetting to tug their forlocks and bend the knee in due deference to their betters! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 The three options I've outlined are what happens inside EVERY respected profession in the private sector. If teachers want to behave like 1970's British car workers or print workers by striking to feather their own nests at the expense of the financial viability of the whole system, and by expecting to dictate to their bosses how to run their organisations, then they can hardly be surprised when people just laugh at their claims to professionalism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 they could work within the system to make their views know at the consultation stage but accept the decision when the decision makers make it (crew members DO NOT drive the ship!) Errm, isn't that what they did in 2007 Unfortunately the decision makers ie the government now want to change the decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Exactly Wolfie, The goal posts keep moving!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 We're 5 years, a massive deficit run up by the last mob, and a full blown recession down the line from 2007. The decision going forward has to change. And the democratically elected decision makers are the ones to make it. True professionals would shut up moaning and either get on with it or ship out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Inky, I would agree with you if it was about pay rises or shorter hours etc, but this is about pensions. How is anyone, professional or otherwise supposed to plan for retirement if the formulaes they use keep changing. They have already agreed to paying more into the pension, getting the pension later in life and receiving less. They have already had to accept no pension increase for 2 years. What is the point of going to arbitration or acas or agreeing any contract if a few years later it's not worth a carrot or some jumped up politician says we are short of money and it's your pensions that will suffer because of it. Particularly when its those same jumped up politicians who have already given themselves a pension increase with contributions less than what teachers pay and received over only one term of office. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 Back in 1982, I took out my first pension at the age of 18. I was told back then that it would give me a return of £X a year when I get to 65. That same pension will now be worth 13% of what it was supposed to be when I get to 65 (If I manage it anyway) If I was a teacher in 1982, a ) would I be working to the age of 65 in the first place? and b ) would my pension be worth 13% of what it was supposed to be when I took it out? If the answer is yes to either question.... I will be most suprised! and before you start banging on about the old " oh you're just jealous..... "etc. just note Wolfies words above: ..........when its those same jumped up politicians who have already given themselves a pension increase with contributions less than what teachers pay and received over only one term of office. ..........What would help, is government employees to be treated the same as members of the government. If a 1/60th, 7.6% contributory final pension scheme payable after 5 years is good enough for mp's then it should be acceptable for everyone else. ..........In 2010 the average teachers pension was £9,806 compared to £20,000 of an mp (which they get after only one term in office), and in the latest review of mp's pensions an increase of only 1.85% on contributions has been recommended from April this year. Of course we are all in it together The lefties have beaten me to it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted April 9, 2012 Report Share Posted April 9, 2012 I don't pretend to be the brightest button in the box Baz, but I'm not even sure what your point is. :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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