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Sue Durnim

Joining a union?

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I have no doubt that now the cuts have been mentioned and where they are going to fall, those people (free loaders) who have never paid into a union (eg. Unison, TGW etc) and have had all the same pay rises and benefits thanks to the union members that have fought for, these free loaders have not paid a penny into any union, they break picket lines by going behind their colleagues back, not giving support and not losing out in wages, those very people are now queuing up to join the union because they are in fear of losing there jobs.

 

I say no way, unions should not allow them to join, these people have obviously double standards and no sooner have they been helped by the unions they then leave not to pay another union subscription again until the next time their jobs are threatened.

:x

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When I was in the EEtu many years ago, I went on strike along with about 100 fellow "brothers" over the breaking of a legitimate site agreement.

 

The union refused to help us because they were more interested in keeping things sweet with Kelloggs (where we were working and where the union had just been "recognised") rather than helping a bunch of contractors....

 

I got out of the union at the first opportunity which meant it jeopardised being able to work on many sites as there was a requirement to be a member before you were allowed to enter a lot of places....... Crosfields/Levers being one as I recall.....

 

Unions may do some good things for workers, but the shop stewards and senior members are far too stuck up their own backsides and think they know better than the bloke who pays their wages when it comes to running a business...

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Baz said:

 

'Unions may do some good things for workers, but the shop stewards and senior members are far too stuck up their own backsides and think they know better than the bloke who pays their wages when it comes to running a business...'

 

 

Baz, what a good description of Bob Crowe!

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I appreciate that there are wrongs and rights about being in a union, however the people who decide not to join or opt out for what ever reason, should have the courage of their conviction to stay out of a union even when times get tough and not except the wage increases that the members of unions fight for.

 

I also think that employees who decide not to join a union should not have the same benefits or wage increases that union members get, for example non-union employees should get half or non at all of what a union member gets in the way of a wage increase?

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Trimmers or fence sitters have existed throughout history, ready to reep the reward from someone else's struggles - however, it would be nigh impossible to create a two tier wage structure to accomodate them - the only way would be "close shop" agreements, making Union Membership a condition of employment. As for TU "Officials"; last I heard, they are elected, they are paid to respond to the needs/demands of the majority of members and articulate their views/concerns; and strikes are the subject of a ballot - thus the responsibility of all voting members NOT the TU demagogues demonised by the Tory Press. :wink:

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Very well put Observer!

 

But rightly or wrongly, I see things in a black and white context, I do not believe that while other people struggle and fight for beliefs/values in the work place, that other people (hangers-on - non-union members) should also gain that reward or protection?

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If it isn't required to join a union, the problem remains and the law now says that people doing the same jobs must be paid the same. No amount of Union input can change that so what is the point of unions being involved in pay where that is the case?

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Sue,

 

in my opinion, unions are a waste of time. They serve only to serve themselves and do bugger all for their members in a lot of cases.

 

I don't agree that I should have to be a union member if I want to work on a site, that is akin to saying only white people can have a job there too in my opinion.

 

As for hard won pay rates, many industries now have a set wage structure and a set pay rise scale, so by your evaluation, those who are union members should not get a pay rise offered by the company if the union didn't negotiate it?

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Unions only want to know about their members IF their fight can get media attention. Otherwise you can get good deals without them.

We don't live in the dark ages any more. The majority of people are reasonably paid with pretty good conditions and enough holidays.

 

obs, they only get voted in because most workers don't care. It's similar to politics.

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Baz J.

 

It's only my opinion, it's just that I have been in work places where if it was not for the union the workforce would not get a pay rise at all, as far as I know, companies do not have to give pay rises?

 

It just that when other people in the workplace do not want to join the union and state that they are a waste of time and money, yet still accept the wage rises and benefits that the union and union member has negotiated or been on strike for, people who choose not to be in a union should have the courage and decency of their convection not to accept the wage rise that the unions have fought for on behalf of their members.

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Much of the good stuff the unions do goes unreported- many reps in local workplaces undertake the role voluntarily and represent their members at disciplinary hearings, offer discounts on insurance and many unions run their own credit unions to enable members to manage their money better. Senior reps have extensive experience of employment law and can keep over zealous employers within the law

 

Its not all a bed of roses and there are differences within unions- nobody says they are perfect but they do have their place

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Every advance in workers rights, that we now take for granted, has been won by the collective action of workers in the past - either directly or indirectly. There's a film just released "made in Dagenham" which provides an example. Whilst there have been a few enlightened employers in the past (Cadbury etc); the vast majority, without the counterweight of trade unions and legislation, will exploit labour in order to maximise profit. :cry:

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....Obs, did you know that the green Corsair 2000 in "Made in Dagenham" belongs to Fords own classic collection and may well have been delayed in its construction by the strikes!!! :lol:

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Kevofaz25/Observer...

 

...good to know that there are enlightened and people who understand what the unions and members have done for the majority of the workforce all over the world and help to give power to the exploited by giving them better wages, safer working environments and safe guarding their working rights and of course this not only benefits the workers but also the employers.

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Sue, are you suggesting that the things available as a union member are not available elsewhere?

My understanding was that the unions themselves accepted that those who did not want to be in a union (ina closed shop) could continue working as long as they gave their subs to someone else.

 

I think that the unions lost their way when as they do now, they tried to play the heavy as in days of old. There is very little industry these days and therefore the need is not as great as it was years ago.

The most off putting issue is going on strike. The members lose lose whilst the union bosses still get paid and don't suffer.

If they changed their image, more people might be interested. One of the biggest problems these days is to get companies to allow their workers to be in a union that is allowed through the door.

Image change!!!!!

Another negative is the relationship with the Labour Party. Do you really want to be contributing to put Labour in power for them just to bankrupt the country? :shock:

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Peter T.

 

I was just pointing out that some people have double standards, they decide not to be in a union for what ever reason and that very same person/s condems the union, but are still happy enough to accept the pay rises fought for by the union and its members.

 

It's only my opinion, but people should have the courage of their conviction and not free load off others.

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Strange how the folk who have just messed up the global economy (the casino bankers) get more respect when they threaten this Country ("If we don't get our bonuses, we'll leave"); than the Plebs trying to cling to civilized wages and conditions. Could it be that their ilk monopolise the seats of power, and to protect their monopoly, the peasants need to be "kept in their place"? :?

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Peter T.

 

I was just pointing out that some people have double standards, they decide not to be in a union for what ever reason and that very same person/s condems the union, but are still happy enough to accept the pay rises fought for by the union and its members.

 

It's only my opinion, but people should have the courage of their conviction and not free load off others.

 

If it was the other way round, where non-union members negotiated a pay rise, the Unions would be DEMANDING that their member/s got it as well.

 

I think that you will find that the biggest problem with unions is the members themselves. For all the talk, they are not very democratic.

Those who make the most noise and have the least to lose, are usually behind most problems.

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It is a good thing when there are injustices in the work place, that you have a union to depend on, and that the very laws that protect the worker have been brought in by the help of a union for the better of the worker and business.

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I agree Sue, the unions represent their members well with regards to injustices and fairness in the work place. That is really what they are there for and should concentrate on, rather than pay bargaining.

 

I haven't had a pay rise in 3 years, but I work in the private sector where times have been hard.....

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I agree Sue, the unions represent their members well with regards to injustices and fairness in the work place. That is really what they are there for and should concentrate on, rather than pay bargaining.

 

I haven't had a pay rise in 3 years, but I work in the private sector where times have been hard.....

 

I sympathize Silverlady54, working in a SME business can be rewarding when times are good, however the flip side is that you can also be held to ransom by being given a low wage governed by market forces and having no back up from your fellow work colleagues, if you have any at all, and being told by bosses that ?if you don?t like it, you can always leave, there are plenty of unemployed? a great incentive when alternative work is difficult to find these days.

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OMG..... Sue, are you Red Robbo in disguise? The unions have done as much to screw this country over the years as the bankers have. The strikes of the 70's and 80's and the lord almighty approach that some halfwit prat like Prentis et al do nothing to help their image.

 

Prentis is an open supporter of the union puppet Red Ed Millipede and christ help us if he ever gets elected as prime minister.....

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