Paul Kennedy Posted September 16, 2008 Report Share Posted September 16, 2008 I've just managed to delete my original post...grrr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 16, 2008 Report Share Posted September 16, 2008 Such is the nature of the capitalist system - one big casino! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Posted September 16, 2008 Report Share Posted September 16, 2008 no AIG has lost it gambling on "credit default swaps". Exactly and if you look at other places that have been bailed out or gone under, you will find that they too were doing the same! Did they not learn anything in the 1930's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted September 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 16, 2008 No problem with the capitalist system Observer, it is just i get annoyed with those....bankers....who advocate it for everybody else, then ignore capitalist principles when their businesses get into trouble and seek state handouts. Personally I quite like the mixed economy as there is a role for the State in some aspects of our lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 16, 2008 Report Share Posted September 16, 2008 Historically, societies have recognised that total freedom = anarchy, and anarchy offers little or no protection for the weak; thus the evolution of law and order. Likewise, with the financial markets operating in a global economy; without rules and regulation you have the law of the jungle - which is basically what we have now and we are witnessing the results of. What is clearly required asap; is global institutions and regulation to ensure ethical practise by those playing with our money and ultimately our lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted September 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 Very true. Up until about 10 years ago the regulator in the UK was the Bank of England, and generally it did a good job quietly working away in the background and dealing with those organisations that were getting in to difficulty, normally by arranging mergers. Then a new tripartite system was set up with the BoE, the Financial Services Authority and the Treasury....seems to have gone downhill ever since. The FSA is well out of its depth when pitted against the spivs and cowboys who now run many of our financial institutions... for maximum short term personal gain. It is also somewhat unfortunate that many houseowners regarded their house as "casino chips" to be played on the roulette table which was the property market, rather than a home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted September 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 It is interesting to note that HBOS has approximately 5.2 billion issued shares, yet the volatilty in its price is being caused by relatively small buys/sells, just at the moment the volume is just a few thousand each minute which is very light trading. I notice one trade at 8:26 this morning was for 1 share...bought for ?1.83. Update, that share has now dropped in value to ?1.55, and in the last few minutes the value of HBOS has fallen from ?9.7 billion to ?8.4 billion. At this rate a takeover could be on the cards, and somebody could get this bank very cheap. A year ago its stock market valuation was about ?60 billion. I can imagine that the eyes of the main Board are glued to the trading screens. At this rate they might suspend trading in the shares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted September 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 PS Seems that Lloyds TSB are in merger talks with HBOS, if true LTSB are going to get a steal and whilst it's value has recovered, it is now down to about ?7.1 billion having started the day at ?9.7 billion. Those people who bought today at its low of 88p, if they sell now as the price is on the up are looking at a nice profit. Timing is everything and it is possible to double your money in the space of an hour with the way things are going, the price might recover to what it was at the start of the day.......or even higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 Stocks and shares are the safest form of gambling, provided you know what your doing; you can even buy shares in the morning (without paying a dime) and sell them in the afternoon at a profit, thus making money with nothing - crazy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted September 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 Within a 40 minute period this morning you could have doubled your money by buying and selling HBOS shares....all it needed was ba.......nerves of steel.....and a line of credit Alas there are many small shareholders who held on to their flotation shares as a nest egg with allocations worth at their peak between ?2,000 to ?12,000 now with a value of about ?300 to ?1,800. If the merger with TSB goes ahead those share might be valued at ?3 each, they peaked at about ?11. Not good, but they were free to start with back in 1997. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted September 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 Stocks and shares are the safest form of gambling, provided you know what your doing; : Very true, and also only gamble what you are prepared to lose, unfortunately most people don't do that and instead, their gambling is based on greed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 17, 2008 Report Share Posted September 17, 2008 The fact that Governments, (or more to the point - taxpayers), both here and in the USA are prepared to "bail out" these failed companies, in the interest of stabilising financial markets; tells us that "the people" (taxpayers) now have to excercise regulation and control over this sector of the economy. Because "the economy" is now also globally interactive; there is also an urgent requirement for such institutions of control to be themselves "global"; which in turn leads to the arguement that such institutions require accountability through global political institutions - hence an arguement for World Government. Meanwhile, one of the biggest ironies in this whole debacle, is the fact that the one Country with the capacity to start buying into these "failed" companies is China - Moa Tse Tung must be laughing in his grave! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busby Posted September 18, 2008 Report Share Posted September 18, 2008 Interesting to see that every American tax payer is now sponsoring Man United Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted September 18, 2008 Report Share Posted September 18, 2008 Interesting to see that every American tax payer is now sponsoring Man United No argument now, they are definitely the best supported club in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 18, 2008 Report Share Posted September 18, 2008 Says it all really! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted September 18, 2008 Report Share Posted September 18, 2008 The question is will the elephant in the room (the EUSSR Commission) allow LLoydsTSB to take over HBOS? Our government long ago signed any jurisdiction over such mergers to their masters in Brussels and no amount of spin from "Jonah" Brown will change that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted September 18, 2008 Report Share Posted September 18, 2008 Interesting to see that every American tax payer is now sponsoring Man United Including the owners of Poo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 18, 2008 Report Share Posted September 18, 2008 Asp:As other EU Countries are in the same boat, perhaps they will exercise the same expediency as the UK Gov. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 All for one and one for all? I very much doubt it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 20, 2008 Report Share Posted September 20, 2008 Nope - mutual self-interest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted September 22, 2008 Report Share Posted September 22, 2008 France and Germany are only interested in looking after number one. Thats the only mutual interest in that quarter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 22, 2008 Report Share Posted September 22, 2008 Of course, and that's what I meant by mutual SELF-interest; something this country appears incapable of doing - hence we're the global joke! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted September 23, 2008 Report Share Posted September 23, 2008 They will probably hammer the UK for doing it, but ignore it if it happens anywhere else in Europe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted September 23, 2008 Report Share Posted September 23, 2008 .. and as ever, we will let them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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