rodk Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Sounds to me like you have the same sort of nationalist views that were the cause of both 1st & 2nd world wars. Regarding those posts, i am pleased you have the opportunity to read them. But surely you saw a balanced set of replies didn't you? Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Sounds to me like you have the same sort of nationalist views that were the cause of both 1st & 2nd world wars. Regarding those posts, i am pleased you have the opportunity to read them. But surely you saw a balanced set of replies didn't you? Rod Not at all; partly because I am not advocating the mass slaughter of innocents.... merely the mass repatriation of people back to their own countries to allow our own residents a chance of a job and a future and an end to crazy European dictats and doctrine. As for the balanced replies, yes, I did read the whole thread and a few others too, and I was shocked to read that London had spent over £20 million on cycle lanes!!! we have had it easy up north! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Interesting prog on Beeb 1 tonight; which demonstrates that the conflict on our roads, is a competition for finite space; and that there are bad drivers/riders, regardless of their transport mode. However, what it also shows, is that the biggest and heaviest win, and that those on bikes are literally dicing with death. Which leads me to the conclusion, that modifications to the traffic enviroment; worst of all, to the anarchy of "naked streets"; is a suicidal fantasy. What it all comes down to in the end, is competance; are drivers/riders physically and mentally fit, properly tested and trained; and sufficiently risk aware, to survive the growing congestion on our road systems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 I have long been of the opinion that most (not all but most) drivers are mad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodk Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Not at all; partly because I am not advocating the mass slaughter of innocents.... merely the mass repatriation of people back to their own countries to allow our own residents a chance of a job and a future and an end to crazy European dictats. "merely mass repatriation" and what about all the reciprocal repatriation of Brits back to the UK. Surely that woud negate any employment opportunities. Its just xenofobia. If you hadn't noticed, these islands are in Europe, geographically, culturally and commercially. Your icon is worse than bad taste. The idea that you would be happy to see something blown up gets close to inciting violence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Seems, in New Zealand, they've taught some dogs to drive - pity they've not got round to doing it effectively with some humans! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodk Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Woops, Posted it twice by mistake!! Not at all; partly because I am not advocating the mass slaughter of innocents.... merely the mass repatriation of people back to their own countries to allow our own residents a chance of a job and a future and an end to crazy European dictats. "merely mass repatriation" and what about all the reciprocal repatriation of Brits back to the UK. Surely that woud negate any employment opportunities. Its just xenofobia. If you hadn't noticed, these islands are in Europe, geographically, culturally and commercially. Your icon is worse than bad taste. The idea that you would be happy to see something blown up gets close to inciting violence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Woops, Posted it twice by mistake!! "merely mass repatriation" and what about all the reciprocal repatriation of Brits back to the UK. Surely that woud negate any employment opportunities. Its just xenofobia. If you hadn't noticed, these islands are in Europe, geographically, culturally and commercially. Your icon is worse than bad taste. The idea that you would be happy to see something blown up gets close to inciting violence. Rod.... posting it twice doesn't make it any more correct.... The mass repatriation I am referring to is the mass repatriation of the countless hundreds of thousands of Poles and Eastern Europeans that have flooded here since Blair decided to open the borders and anticipated a few thousand would take the opportunity to come. The Eastern Europeans are slowly destroying the low paid jobs market in this country which was a backbone for our youngsters leaving school and for things like summer fruit picking jobs in East Anglia for students. Their skilled labour is pouring in and undercutting our own tradesmen and devaluing national pay rates by taking minimum wages to carry out skilled work. Now you and countless others may see this as a fair price to pay for being in Europe, but unfortunately I and many others do not.... I want my kids and others to have jobs to go to when they leave school in a few years time and not be undercut at every opportunity by some chancer of an economic migrant who sends most of their money back home and sleeps 20 to a house to keep the council tax bills down. And please explain why it is xenophobic to want jobs and houses for my kids when they grow up? If some Polish type came to Warrington and built a nursery and charged half of what you do and forced you to cut costs, reduce your take home pay and lay off staff.... would you be happy? As for repatriating Brits back home, if you can show me that as many Brits have gone to work in Poland and Eastern Europe as have come over here I will show my arse in Burtons window.... yet another of the ploys used by the open door fanatics.. My icon is far from being in bad taste..... the image it is based on was shown all over the world and showed the end of Nazi Germany and everything evil it stood for... it is merely a take on that. I want to see an end to rule by the new Nazis in Europe and one day that may happen.... I'm sure you are more than happy with them however; after all, just look at all the cycle lanes they have initiated for your lycra lot! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Good post Baz, but I think, for some reason, the topic has gone slightly "off road". Perhaps Rod doesn't want to defend these hair brained and expensive traffic schemes, when the problem is clearly about how competant we are at using road space, rather than what transport mode we use it with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodk Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Good post Baz, but I think, for some reason, the topic has gone slightly "off road". Perhaps Rod doesn't want to defend these hair brained and expensive traffic schemes, when the problem is clearly about how competant we are at using road space, rather than what transport mode we use it with? Observer All the "Naked Streets" schemes I know of are very expensive and already have a 20mph or lower limit. I tend to think that we need lower speeds on most of our roads and that such schemes can be very appropriate in certain places. Regarding space for transport modes, then I presume you are refering to how much room is taken up by motor cars compared to moving the same number of people around by cycle, public transport or walking. I agree that motor cars lead to the least efficient utilisation of roads in terms of both area and cost. That doesn't mean I am against using motor cars. I use one myself. But lets use them in a manner that enables all modes of transport to co-exist in safety and convenience. Rod So Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodk Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Baz I didn't know that it was only Poles and East Europeans you wanted to re-patriate. That seems rather selective. And also quite difficult to actually put into practice. Any other characteristics that you feel should be a trigger to repatriation? Of course arguing with your prejudices is fairly pointless. I am sure that the intolerance you show towards cyclists applies to other things as well. But if you want some facts then perhaps you can take a look at this article. I know its the Guardian, but maybe only look at the numbers rather than anything else. http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/sep/07/immigration-europe-foreign-citizens Earlier this year I was invited to speak at a conference on Active Mobility in Gdansk on how the UK is developing its use of 20mph (30kmh) streets in cities throughout the country. I was given the use of a bicycle for the 3 days I was there and found getting round the town very easy. Public transport was also cheap and reliable. It seems that in this Polish city then they are learning from the mistakes of becoming over-dependent on cars for mobility. Best regards Rod 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 My point Rod, after watching the Beeb 1 prog; is that the problem isn't the standard of road layouts but the standard of road users (of all modes). Therefore, awareness training at an early age, with mandatory proficiency tests for cyclists; increased standard and frequency of tests for vehicle drivers; would be a better and possibly cheaper way of improving road safety and reduce the annual death toll on our roads; which equates to four jumbo jets full of passengers crashing every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted December 7, 2012 Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Rod.... Putting repatriation into practice is fairly straightforward. We get out of Europe and stop the open door policy adopted by the previous Labour Government... they have destroyed the balance and trust the population had with regards to immigration and have even admitted so themselves. The page you linked to has some interesting stats.... Showing that the tax havens of Luxembourg and Switzerland have the highest percentage of foreign residents so maybe skews the figures somewhat because there would be little other reason to move there other than to protect your money from being taxed at the higher rates of other countries. the UK carries over 4 million foreign citizens... third in the list and that most foreign residents are younger on average than the resident population; economic migrants in other words.... with the larger and more propsperous countries taking the larger proportions of what are probably people from the poorer countries which in turn will affect the job prospects of the resident populous. The figures bear this out as the Eastern block countries have the smaller intake of fellow European residents which means that sort of negates your argument in your previous post about the amount of people from the UK travelling to Poland to live and work. Amazing what statistics can be made to show! I have said before on numerous occasions that I don't have a problem with your 20mph limits provided that they are "useful and necessary".... spending hundreds of thousands of pounds to achieve such pitiful reductions in average speeds is quite frankly a total waste of money and is largely based on scare stories and nonsense to convince people that they are a wonderful thing when in reality, the overall benefits in many cases are negilible and the financial costs are ridiculous. With regards to my "predujices" towards cyclists; I have an issue with those cyclists who insist on using the roads when there are clearly marked and expensive cycle lanes in place using the excuses as they do about having to keep stopping and that it is faster to use the roads etc., just as you would have an issue with a car driver who decided to use the pavement because it was easier than using the roads. I cycle myself (albeit occasionally) and always manage to use the facilities that have been provided. It just appears to me that it is usually always the "serious" cyclists that flout the rules and insist on doing things their way rather than just conforming and staying safe; preferring instead to confront drivers for not allowing enough room etc. when there are perfectly good cycle lanes they can use. Finally, Gdansk is hardly a comparrison with the UK when it comes to traffic volumes. Riding a bike in Poland is much easier because car ownership is a lot less as many cannot afford to run cars.... (You just have to see the standards of most Polish cars on the roads around here to judge that) Right, I'm going to get my dinner... fingers are hurting.... but I did notice you never commented on the part about foreign types coming over here and setting up rival businesses.... that rarely happens in practice, it is the labour type of work they come for, so our labourers, manual workers etc. are the ones at risk.... just look at how many Poles etc. worked on the Olympic sites... but very few if any would have owned the companies they were working for 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2012 Flogging a dead horse Baz, they can't see beyond the next junction! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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