Manhunt!

[Bazj]

but Kije, if it really was Innocent until proven guilty, why are people remanded in custody UNTIL they appear in court at a later date as Legion says? Surely that implies that they are considered to have done it and may abscond or commit more crimes and so they are locked up

 

As for Moat, I think it is bloody hilarious; the fact that a copper may have tazered him which caused an involuntary reaction in his fingers to tighten up on the trigger and blow his head off!! Justice has been served and a lot of money has been saved..... and Gazza has proven once again that he needs locking up because he is a complete balloon

[Lt Kije]

Remand as a court procedure: an action by an appellate court in which it sends back a case to the trial court or lower appellate court for action

Detention of suspects: the imprisonment of suspects before trial or sentencing.

In some countries, to remand is to summon to appear in court on a specific day in the future. The prisoner is taken briefly before a magistrate, who will remand him or her until a later hearing. He or she may be remanded on bail, i.e., mostly free provided specified conditions are met. For more serious offences, or if the accused is believed to pose a high risk of absconding or harming the public, or where specifically required by law, a remand in custody keeps the accused in prison until his or her trial.

 

In the Uk you remain innocent until proven guilty in a Court of Law, although the press and media would have you beleive otherwise.

 

When you go to court you do not have to prove you are innocent, It is for the prosecution to prove you guilty.

[observer]

Is there some doubt that Moat shot three people, killing one of them? Anyway, the nutter's dead - oh what a shame - move on - NEXT!

[Legion]

The point is "innocent until proven guilty" is just a figure of speech.

 

It carries no legal weight in assuring ones liberty at any point once a crime has been committed or even alledged.

 

On that premise that you speak there would be no powers of arrest, no need to attend court, you could walk around town naked, with a semi automatic weapon, mugging old ladies, demanding your right to be" innocent until proven guilty in a court of law" awaiting your trial date of which you could take your gun in with your, shoot everyone if you didn't like the result, then await your new trial.

 

its much like the rights to shoot Welshmen in Chester, or for Freemason to walk their sheep across London bridge...it aint gonna happen.

 

you are guilty until proven innocent once accused of any crime.

 

I tell you what, lt kije if at any point in the future you get pulled over (if you drive try 1am christmas period) for a spot breath test.. just say "No I am innocent until proven guilty, just send me my court date in the post and I shall await the verdict of my peers" and then try to drive away.

 

or try telling it to a school teacher on suspension because some kid has alleged inappropriate behaviour.

 

Tell it to Saddam Hussein or rather Tony Blair that we had no rights to invade Iraq because Saddam had never gone to trial.

 

in fact as before name one single case where someone has had free liberty at all times once an accusation has been made of any crime worthy of a court appearance..

[Lt Kije]

Innocent until proven guilty is not a point of law it is enshrined in our law, why don't you check

[observer]

Seems Mr Moat now has a cult following, hope your not one of them Kyje?!

[Lt Kije]

No I am not, I just which he would have lived so he could have gone though the courts, I actually find it a bit sick

 

My only complaint was the media coverage, I think this thing on facebook came about in part because of it, Their are elements in society that sadly like an anti hero if indead thats what he was.

[Bazj]

I just wish he would have lived so he could have gone though the courts

 

So you wish he could have gone through the courts so that instead of pleading guilty (which the majority (if not all)) murder suspects never do because it means they stay on remand which means extra priviliges and they can wear their own clothes, and as a murder trial tends to take anything up to a year to come to court; you can see why. Plus their lawyers (usually getting paid via legal aid) advise them to plead no guilty as they to can grab money for longer....

 

That time on remand waiting for the trial is not a holiday for the victims and families, like it is for the accused, it is torture.

 

Then the trial arrives....... have you ever been in the dock during a murder trial Kije..... thought not..... The victims families are put through the most impossible time; almost as though they themselves are on trial as the accused; now that he has had his cushy time on remand, tries everything to get off with the charge. back and to at the courts every day for weeks on end listening to the accused slag off the loved ones who are dead and cannot defend themselves.....

 

You know nothing about the process Kije and your wish that he had gone through the courts is just another one of your toga wearing "everyone deserves a chance" liberal claptrap.

 

Moat is dead and in hell where he belongs, he was scum and should have been sniped as soon as they found him cowering like a dog in a drain. The place he died should become a shrine to true justice.

 

If you want to listen to the kind of people who think he deserved better, go to talksport.net and listen to The Creator of the 'Raoul Moat is a Legend' Facebook page - Siobhan O'Dowd - as she tells Ian Collins why she started the group. Then you realise what this country has become

 

http://www.talksport.net/mediaplayer/media_player.asp?searchtype=new&c=&t=

[Lt Kije]

If he had pleaded guilty it still would have gone to court Baz

 

The difference between The State you would have us live in and the State we live in is our Justice system, Its not perfect but its still one of the best around

 

You have to have a trail to get justice

[disgusted]

If he had pleaded guilty it still would have gone to court Baz

 

The difference between The State you would have us live in and the State we live in is our Justice system, Its not perfect but its still one of the best around

 

You have to have a trail to get justice

Not if the accussed pleads guilty

[Lt Kije]

If he pleads guilty then he will still go for sentencing, and justice is severed.

[disgusted]

If he pleads guilty then he will still go for sentencing, and justice is severed.

No need for a trial though

[Bazj]

If he had pleaded guilty it still would have gone to court Baz

 

As Fatshaft has said, he would have only gone to court for sentencing.... there is no trial. But also as I said, the vast majority of criminals accused of serious crimes will not plead guilty because they lose priviliges by doing so.

 

You have to have a trail to get justice

 

You really are very naive Sgt..... are you sure you have left school?

[observer]

Perhaps he should be demoted down to Corporal - or would corporal punishment offend his Human Rights?!

[Bazj]

[Lt Kije]

You have missed the point as usual

 

It is irrelevant if they plead guilty or not, as long as they go though the courts and justice is seen to be done. Not lets take him to the scaffold because Baz has decided they are guilty.

[disgusted]

You have missed the point as usual

 

It is irrelevant if they plead guilty or not, as long as they go though the courts and justice is seen to be done. Not lets take him to the scaffold because Baz has decided they are guilty.

 

 

The only person missing the point seems to be you, you said.....

You have to have a trail to get justice

 

Which is incorrect.

[Lt Kije]

Trail could have been a bad use of word, what I meant was to get justice you have to go though the system, I sure you you that and are just being pedantic.

 

I'm sure you agree its better than Baz"s system of hang them high, because he says there guilty

[Bazj]

Well it isn't just me who says moat was guilty is it?

 

or are you advocating spending money to prove what we already know?

[Lt Kije]

Yes

 

He should have gone to court and been CONVICTED by his peers

 

I know the way you feel Baz, with your history, But a justice system is part of a civilised society, No matter how sick the person is they still have to go though the system, I accept your point it is hard on the victims families I am not sure what could be done about that.