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I know for a fact that all Catholic holidays coincide with original pagan holidays - Christmas, Easter, Halloween is even a holiday that has it's roots in Paganism.


From the dawn of time, man has used what ever power he/she sees to help explain what is not explained.


Some of the oldest examples of Paganism are the statues of motherly figures, with ample figures, that demonstrate the Mother aspect that would have been primarily important to the early people. These statues, from a very early time period (35,000-10, 000, b.c) have been found all over Europe. The Venus of Willendorf, or Willendorf Goddess, is a commonly used example.

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Atheism is a belief system, but don't tell Obbs that, he won't believe it! :wink:


As for paganism never going away, like as a certain beardy Irish tree hugger and defender of the rights of people to keep a certain tree up so as not to offend the fairies, "It hasn't gone away you know!" Paganism covers a biigggggg, biiiggggggg, area.


Paganism is the origin of all religions? Whoa, hold on though, paganism is to do with worshipping nature, nature gods and has a strong tinge of Pantheism. The classic three monotheistic religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam, do not worship these creations and creatures, but the First Cause who created everything. Different kettle of fish altogether, though that does not mean that there aren't things they and paganism do agree on, nor does it deny that in their traditions built over the centuries beyond their scriptures, pagan traditions weren't taken and re-moulded into something more palatable for monotheists. Like Christmas... the Evil Eye, Kabbalism, that sort of thing.


Meanwhile, Atheists have April Fools' Day! :wink:


[ 04.06.2007, 21:46: Message edited by: Goonerman ]

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Originally posted by observer:

So what's your point Mary; cos Homo Sapien Sapien has always worshiped something, it must be alright? :roll:

You can't escape the fact that ALL these things give/used a feel-good factor whether right or wrong.

We ALL believe in "something".

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While I am busy with other things, TMM, please clarify for me by what you mean by the words, "to a point", and with that and other contributions made, I will give my thoughts when I return on the weekend! :wink:


As for the comfort zone, errrr, what comfort zone is that?! My life would be a lot easier if I wasn't a Christian, and as for those in countries where persecution occurs, that's just totally a wrong-headed assessment from scratch! :roll: Check the Open Doors website! :o:x

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  • 1 month later...

paganism, where do I start.. it encompasses so many sub catagories and chapters that you cannot blanket state any one fact about it.


apart form this observation rather than fact..


It has been infiltrated by every no-hope, lowlife, goth wannabe, occultist, nutter, crystal waver going.


people are searching for a path/religeon as the the fact is christianity and mainstreem religeons are too hypocritical and absurd for todays intelectual society, people do want religeon, but under their own terms, paganism (the blanket catch all form) caters to their pot smoking tree hugging needs even devil worshiping (but dont let that put you off as there is no such thing as black magic anyway...well not in the harry potter sense) and what we (joe bloggs view) as devil worship is based not on evil but a tainted christianic view to whipe out paganism 800 years ago as you either worshipe their god or died as a devil worshiper (ie pagan) thats why its associated with such practices.


I discovered my beleif and thought it may best be suited under the umbrella of paganism, after joining the pegan federation, and getting to meet and know some of their members I quickly realised that they are less interested in the theology and principles of existance and more intrested in talking bollox and smoking weed while preaching a oneness with the same plants they are quite happy to cut down to smoke.


I still beleive there is good pagan ritual and beleif systems out there, its just the current representatives are not good examples.

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I have quite a few friends who follow paganism so I bought a few books so I could understand what it was all about. It has got a bad name for itself and like legion says a lot of people tend to connect it with evil and satanism. It is a shame. People are to quick to judge about something they don't understand.

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Paganism is:

Earth Religions include Pagan religions (Wicca, Druidism, Shamanism, etc.), traditional religions of indigenous peoples, those variations on indigenous religions (Voodoo, Ifa, Santeria, eclectic Native American-inspired medicine societies, etc.) and on variations of widespread religions (Christian, Moslem, Sufi, Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, Taoist, Shinto, Unitarian Universalist, etc.) that honor Nature and the Earth and our place in it, along with similar mystic beliefs and practices.

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well to be fair Satanism does come under the umbrella of Paganism.


but then there are several diffrent satans, theres the holywood satanism, "witch :wink: " generaly involves goats heads, symbolism, blood sacrifices and looks very dramatic and makes for excelent baddies for films this is the commonman view thanks to christianity and holywood (explained below).


Then theres the satan who fell to earth after being an arch angel after a fight with god as he tried a coupe which comes from dantes inferno. not a worshiped satan, but one that affects our view because of a popular book.Associated with this is the satan who was split from the devils holy trinity, just like christian god they are one in three, satan, beelzebub and lucifer who are the one devil. (some say lucifer became satan after the fall) this makes for a good vs evil equality view since it balances things (a very pagan view)


and then the pagan satan who realy is a worship of a celestial body (star/sun/moon) as a godess or god..its just a name.


some believe thier are devine universal powers hidden within symbols, mathmatics and numbers, which have helped create the universe, invocation of this science is often viewed as satanism.


The true satan however, is a much less glamerous arabic word meaning angel, obviously as the christian crusaders battled the arab tribes who had their own gods and deities, they would (much as all nations in battle) pray to their gods for help, since the job of the crusaders and catholocism was to wipe out via any method available all religeons but christianity, anyone praying to any other god or angel (shaitan(satan) in arabic) was obviously evil and damned. To help their cause tales would spread that anyone worshiping any one other than the one true god would burn in a hellfire, as this was the common way to wipe out entire heathen villages, thus satan resides in hell.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Can't resist the urge to 'dive in' !


Paganism - The word 'Pagan' is thought to have originated in early Medieval times, possibly from an Anglo Saxon root, and means either a country person (ie 'of the land' / a villager) or later, a person 'not holding the same belief as ...' in the sense that there was a universal type of Catholicism existing then (Medieval Christianity) and a 'Pagan' was not a part of that. It even appears as the personal name 'Paganus' in the Domesday Survey of 1086 AD. It's probably safe to say that 'Paganism' as we understand it has existed less than a thousand years.


Christianity - A religion of one single Almighty God begun by an ancient Egyptian (second only to pharaoh, Moses, who wrote the first 5 books of the Bible & possibly the book of Job), continued by various Canaanite, Israelite, Arabic, Babylonian and Assyrian writers using material and characters from all over the Ancient Middle East, until 'completed' after a 400 year break by Greek, Roman and Hebrew converts in the first century AD. An equally 'chameleon' religion that has existed in modern form only since the Victorian era which was the last time anyone bothered to read The Bible !


Satan - As we have him today was constructed by the Victorians as a kind of 'super villain' based on hundreds of years of Christian creativity and fiction. Everyone needs a bad guy ! The oldest surviving reliable material we have are 680 references contained in The Bible upon which virtually everything to do with 'the Devil' is based and which ultimately originates with the Egyptian god 'Set' (the Jackall / Dragon who lives in the desert).


And the solution is ............ The FACT is that no matter how we look at the world arround us we can not deny structure, life and mystery. We should stop bickering over irrelevant ancient and modern texts that few understand and realise that its really about our perception of these things and each other that matters. Reality is NOT a 'matter of opinion' and we live in it daily whatever we think we are. Whatever your 'opinion' the entire planet proves the existance of a divine creator - take it or leave it - your choice - that's the bottom line :angelwings:

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Good to hear from you, Man In Black, I have a few points in response to you to make.


One, Moses was a Hebrew who happened to have been brought up in the Egyptian court, but who actually looked after him? His own mother. The Book of Job was written by the Wisdom School of Jerusalem, any time between the reigns of King Solomon or King Hezekiah. Hebrews and only Hebrews wrote the original Jewish Scriptures. The only non-Hebrew to write anything in the Bible, including the NT, was Luke and he was most likely a Greek proselyte to Judaism before becoming a Christian. Funny, most of the story of the OT is confined to Israel. And the characters of the Bible are known to have been real people from government documents and memorials from the surrounding nations and found by archaeologists. Look at the Assyrian King Sennacherib's side of the story of the invasion of Judah in the time of the Jewish King Hezekiah in the British Museum, for example.


What makes you think nobody reads the Bible any more? Where do you get that from? :D


As for the Devil being a jackal in the desert, and derived from Sutekh, well, hmmm, the Biblical title of the 'Prince of the powers of the air' suggest something quite different! :wink::P


The Bible may be ancient, but it is far from irrelevant. And I'll take God's own views of Himself before I take my own or anyone else's DIY theology!

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