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Warrington was primarily a Parliamentary town as far as I know, though I think it changed hands a few times. Chester was most definitely Royalist.


Flexibility necessary for survival- like Anakin turning to the Dark Side and becoming Darth Vader more like. The greatest villain of the Civil Wars of the Three Kingdoms was Sir Murrough O'Brien, the Earl of Inchiquin, who fought at different phases for the Royalists, for the Irish Catholic Confederate Army, and then for Cromwell's New Model Army, conducting massacres of all factions and profiting very nicely from his murderous treachery to all, dying peacefully in his bed in 1674 outliving all the others and getting away with it! :x The blackguard! A truly Sithy Sith indeed!


[ 23.04.2007, 23:22: Message edited by: Goonerman ]

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On my Newton History website, I have some detail on Cromwell and his local battle


Battle of Red Bank, 19 Aug 1648


Although this link refers to the local Battle from the Newton le Willows perspective, it gives some detail concerning Cromwell and Warrington


You will find lots of texts online here at books.google.com concerning Cromwell and Warrington



Steven Dowd


[ 24.04.2007, 01:01: Message edited by: Steven Dowd ]

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Hello Gary


I have copies of all Mark O's books (signed)


And he does as you say, refer to Winwick being a City, In his Book One, Mark states:


"In his book Winwick: Its History And Antiquities published in 1879, William Beamont states that the learned historian Usher made Winwick one of twenty cities collected by the 6th century Celtic historian Gildas out of the 5th century Irish Celtic writings of a British chronicler monk known as `Nennius'. Its name at that time was `CAER GWENTQUIC' (hence WENTWICK = WINWICK) around 400 AD."


I haven't read the original texts by Usher which Beamont refers, but to me this seems like a 5th hand referance to it being any sort of city, and all from a single original source, which I do not know if that survives


Nennius: 5th Century

Gildas: 6th Century

Usher: ??

Beamont: 19th Century

Olly: : 20th Century


I did a quick google of the topic, and didn't come up with anything else which suggest the place ever held any city status


If it had been a city, I would have expected at least a second source somewhere, cannot say I ever remember reading anything about it, do you know of any other?




Steven Dowd



ps, Gary, I noted your mistake' to keep calling me Stephen, when it is actually, Steven

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Thelwall is mentioned as a borough (burgh/fortress) in the Anglo-Saxon chronicle, good reference in the year 923 AD .......... the meaning of the word 'city' has changed drastically over the centuries ........ but both were very important places nevertheless. Beamont's work is very in depth and accurate which is why nowadays most copy it to make good reference, I personally wouldn't doubt any of Beamont's written word, unfortunately as with a lot of history it gets twisted as time goes on.


Short but precise link that may be of interest -




[ 24.04.2007, 20:12: Message edited by: tonymailman ]

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Originally posted by Gary:

Hi Stephen - if you can unearth one of Mark Olly's book he has research which shows Winwick was in deed once a city, as was Thelwall, although we are going back to the days of olde medieval England.

Those references actually 'pre-date' the medieval period ........ and it was never 'olde' :roll: the medieval 'era' is generally bracketed as the period from 1066 to 1485.
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