asperity Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/10436218/David-Cameron-must-embrace-Churchills-vision-of-United-States-of-Europe.html As Churcill's vision was of a United Europe, without Great Britain as a member, it seems that Mr Barosso is now agreeing that we should leave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 Churchill was still clinging to Empire Asp, and fought tooth and nail to keep it, he thought with empire we would not need Europe, as we could trade with empire. So his comments are being used out of context, I presume you already new that and were just causing mischief Or is it desperation in resurrecting Churchill for your cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 Indeed Churchill wanted to retain "the Empire", perhaps he was enamoured by the idea of "the colonies" feeding British factories with cheap raw materials, to be turned into finished products for export, which still could have been the case with the commonwealth? Instead, we opted to join a club of identical economies, in direct competition with our own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted November 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 It wasn't me that did the resurrecting, it was Barosso. We had replaced the Empire with the Commonwealth, which we then shamelessly dumped for the carcrash EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted November 10, 2013 Report Share Posted November 10, 2013 found this makes interesting reading and also a little context http://grahampointer.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/what-did-churchill-say-on-11-may-1953.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted November 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 Interesting reading indeed, and nowhere does it show any support by Churchill for Britain becoming part of a Federal Europe. And I must reiterate that it was Barosso quoting (or misquoting, if thats what it was) Churchill, not me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 Churchill was very much a man of his time and a very big supporter of Empire, when he spoke the UK was still clutching at parts of the Empire. I think it would be impossible to say what he would have thought about the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 I think he would have probably thought it so ironic that being the country defeated Germany twice in two wars to free Europe from tyranny; we now face a new federal tyranny and are totally under the control of the enemy we defeated.... I know I do! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 12, 2013 Report Share Posted November 12, 2013 The German "economic miracle" was based on Marshal Aid, I wonder whether they had to pay that back to the US, like we had to pay back lend lease? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Taken from a Churchill Speach Baz, more of a federalist than you thought At this most fateful moment in the history of the modern world The Governments of the United Kingdom and the French Republic make this declaration of indissoluble union and unyielding resolution in their common defence of justice and freedom against subjection to a system which reduces mankind to a life of robots and slaves. The two governments declare that France and Great Britain shall no longer be two nations, but one Franco-British Union. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted November 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Unbelievable spin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Spin? It's a direct quote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted November 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 You are spinning it out of context to try and give the impression that Churchill wanted Britain to be part of a Federal Europe instead of a Sovereign nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Maybe Churchill was in favour of a Franco-British alliance.....maybe.... but I doubt he would have been in favour of a Franco-British-German-Dutch-Slovakian-Slovenian- Austrian-Belgian-Bulgarian-Romanian-Croatian-Czech-Cypriot-Danish-Estonian-Finnish-Irish-Greek-Hungarian-Italian-Latvian-Hungarian-Lithuanian-Maltese=Portuguese-Polish-Spanish-Swedish and Luxembougian(??) alliance where we were dictated to by Germany! Churchill wasn't too fond of the Germans! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Baz, Asp to his credit saw right though it, he did indeed say what I posted,but he said it on the eve of war, so I took it out if context, it was a speech to lift British and French Hearts on the eve if war, as I said earlier it is impossible to say what Churchill would have thought about the EU. Churchill did so many brilliant speeches it is easy to cut a bit out of one and make it seem he was for or against anything, you need to know where he said it and to whom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 So why quote it out of context? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 because despite his "holier than though" image that he tries to make everyone believe "I'm the only one right on Europe"..."Stop posting about immigration..... but I will always join in if you do" Kije just likes to wind people up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 He's an amateur. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry hayes Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 In Churchill's time this country and its Empire were still fairly paramount.. People were proud and patriotic. We had a winning team and nobody wanted to change it. All the rest were considered to be foreigners and untrustworthy. British and best was the watchword. Happy days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Why Obs I was having abut if fun, You should listen to Asp a it more he saw right through, And I came clean bet you and Baz were freaking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 "bet you and Baz were freaking ;-)" I gave your post the same amount of attention as I do with all your others! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 Likewise - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted November 13, 2013 Report Share Posted November 13, 2013 So neither of you could come up with anything then, crap,I should have carried it on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 Thought you always do - "carry on with crap" ?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted November 14, 2013 Report Share Posted November 14, 2013 No I reply to your crap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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