asperity Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Oh dear, been hitting the happy juice LP? I'm sure you pay tax on your business, but you do expect police protection rather than naval protection don't you? And I didn't say it was right or wrong that commercial shipping should get naval protection, only that it could be argued that they might. Okay LP up you get onto your high horse again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Maritime companies are already paying ?millions to the pirates in ransoms, which no doubt is added to prices, which we ultimately pay - so a Naval Protection "tax" would appear logical. Problem is - some resolve is required to actually physically acting against piracy - something that proves difficult in our global democracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Oh dear, been hitting the happy juice LP? I'm sure you pay tax on your business, but you do expect police protection rather than naval protection don't you? And I didn't say it was right or wrong that commercial shipping should get naval protection, only that it could be argued that they might. Okay LP up you get onto your high horse again  No, I damn well don't expect a police escort if I have a business meeting and don't like the area much - and can you imagine the response if I asked for a policement to stand guard over my car whilst I was parked on a car park known for vandalism? I'm not on my high horse - I just know that if the UK spends billions escorting commercial shipping, there's only one place the cash will come from, and I don't see why taxpayers should pay to protect shipping company profits or one single serviceman should be put at risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 What is the point of having a navy if not to protect shipping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 A superb hit for six off the front foot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Asp, perhaps she isn't aware of WW2 convoys?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 The Navy like the Army is there to protect British Interests, whether it be in Afghanistan or off the Coast of Somalia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted November 10, 2009 Report Share Posted November 10, 2009 Correct. No point in them sitting in Portsmouth and Plymouth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Prey tell us Kyje; just what the "British interest" is in Afghanistan - are we in for a share of the oil revenues from S/Russia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LymmParent Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 What is the point of having a navy if not to protect shipping  To defend the coast of our own country. Armed Forces are for DEFENCE, not interfering in other people's business or scoring political points. Stretch a point and deploy for humanitarian reasons by all means, but don't start a war you can't win in waters that are not yours.  If we, as a country, are shipping something to or from Somalia, then of course there should be an escort. You have, however, lost me completely when you suggest that Mr and Mrs yacht owner should get a naval escort on a pleasure trip or a Chinese supertanker owned by a commercial Chinese company is entitled to the use of our Navy for free.  Course, it makes sense if you believe that anyone sailing has superior rights to the rest of us..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 I never suggested that our navy give an escort to Mr and Mrs WAFI or to foreign flag ships, although they are, apparently, now sailing under the flag of the EUSSR But letting the pirates get away with acts of armed robbery and kidnap is no solution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_nana_jackson Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Prey tell us Kyje; just what the "British interest" is in Afghanistan - are we in for a share of the oil revenues from S/Russia? Â The "British interest" is for integrity .. having made a promise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_nana_jackson Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Seems the idea that we can train and mentor the creation of an Afghan Police Force and Army, have taken a knock with the sad news that 5 British soldiers were killed by a Taliban sleeper in their ranks. An objective that would at best take many years to achieve, would appear to be futile in the face of suspected insurgent enterism into these new forces at every level, exacerbated by a culture of corruption. Â People who join an "all volunteer force" should be able to accept their being sent somewhere "socially unacceptable"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_nana_jackson Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 I never suggested that our navy give an escort to Mr and Mrs WAFI or to foreign flag ships, although they are, apparently, now sailing under the flag of the EUSSR But letting the pirates get away with acts of armed robbery and kidnap is no solution  NAIROBI, Kenya ? World powers including the U.S., Russia and China are teaming up at sea to tackle the pirates plaguing Somalia's lawless coast, as a sharp increase in attacks has forced nations who may be rivals on land to make unlikely alliances.  Analysts say the shift from competition to cooperation is also helping to safeguard naval budgets in countries like the United States and Britain that are fighting land-based wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.  "It's remarkable you have in what is generally considered not to be the most strategically important corner of the Earth, you have the Chinese, the Russians, the Americans, the Indians, all working together against a common enemy," said piracy expert Roger Middleton from the London-based think tank Chatham House.  "They've been trained to fight each other, not small enemies," he said.  Pirates have launched increasingly bold attacks against vessels in the Indian Ocean and Gulf of Aden in hopes of capturing a ship and crew and collecting millions of dollars in ransom. They currently hold nearly 250 hostages from around the world, including a British couple taken last month. Three ships have been seized in the last week alone.  Lt. Nate Christensen of the Bahrain-based U.S. Fifth Fleet said 25 ships from 14 nations are now patrolling the Gulf of Aden and Indian Ocean.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Now what "promise" was that Nana? I recall Bliar trooping in after Bush, when Bush whistled him: I recall the fact that Bush went charging into Afghanistan in pursuit of Bin Laden and Al Quaeda (NOT the Taliban): I recall the "mission creep" from a seek and destroy Al Quaeda to wholesale regime change to the democratisation of a medieval society. So what exactly was that "promise", who made it and on who's behalf - cos it certainly wasn't mine. Was it a similar promise to the one the USA made to S/VietNam?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 The British interest in Afghanistan Obs is the same as it was at the beginning Obs "British Security: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 There's none so gullible as a neo-libral on a dream trip! The 9/11 bombers didn't come from Afghanistan, the London bombers didn't come from Afghanistan - they were here to start with, being radicalised on the internet and in the Mosques, whilst playing with a chemistry set in their kitchens; also being radicalised by the resentment at seeing on every day News reports, the indignities suffered by Islam at the hands of neo-Crusaders - so pls don't repeat the codswallop that this Gov is spewing out. Aside from this; it's doubtfull that many, if any Al Quaeda, remain in Afghanistan - the Taliban probably regard them as an embarrassment now - no; they'll be nesting in Pakistan or Somalia or Indonesia or one of a dozen other sancturies throughout the globe - are WE going to invade them all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 The 9/11 bombers did some training there, they only learned to fly in they States Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 So, given that (as you admit), they were trained (to fly) in the US; perhaps we should have invaded the US?! The physical training isn't important, it's the mental radicalisation (brainwashing), that causes the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 And the brainwashing was done in Afghanistan, they only learned to fly in the States Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Wrong again Kyje: the brainwashing occurs in their home communities, on the inter-net, the Mosque or a Pakistan Madrassa: they have to be "brainwashed" in order to take a trip to Afghanistan in the first place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 And you no this how Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 Documented on TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted November 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 ... many times; and substantiated by interviews with ex-radicals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted November 17, 2009 Report Share Posted November 17, 2009 brain washing on the internet, might you think that is done from Afganistan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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