Jump to content
observer

Proportionate?

Recommended Posts

A guy gets 18 months in prison for filming a 3 year old with a fag - is it proportionate to the crime? Yes he's a Richard Head, an even bigger idiot for filming it - but peadohiles are getting away with less than 18months. And where do we stop, jail for the woman who smokes when pregnant? :? BTW - the kid didn't inhale! :wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That sentence did surprise me so much so that I reckon we didn?t get to hear the full story. Clearly the guy?s an absolute idiot pulling a stunt like that but an instant prison sentence does seem a bit strong. Maybe the bloke had some previous issues involving a suspended sentence, who knows? :roll:

 

Bill :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bill,

 

an instant prison sentence is exactly what people should be getting; not liberal toga wearing community service nonsense that they never bother turning up to.

 

Zero tolerence would certainly help to curb some of the idiots in the country

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh I agree wholeheartedly but at the same time there has to be some cut off point and I don?t mean just below the chin, that distinguishes between stupid pranks and jailable criminal activity.

 

Bill :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Precisely my point Baz: if this crass incident is worthy of 18months prison, then kicking someone's head in and turning them into a zombie, should be worth 20 years or more - problem is, it's not working like that. :twisted:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From the article:

 

"A man forced a girl of three to smoke a chain of cigarettes and then filmed her begging: 'Can I have another one?'

A court was shown a series of shocking images of Graeme Conroy handing the crying child cigarette after cigarette.

The 31-year-old was seen laughing and cracking jokes as his tiny victim repeatedly inhaled."

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1220625/Man-forced-year-old-girl-smoke-cigarettes-jailed-18-months.html#ixzz0UBsWWZKp

 

It wasn't the first time, it wasn't a prank. He thought filming it was a joke. He was jailed after admitting child neglect. He is a junkie and also claimed he had made her smoke cannabis, although tests on her hair didn't support that claim. Proportionate? No. 18months is not long enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wasn't there. According to the article, the defendant and the teenager he made record it on her mobile phone, it was not the first time, the child knew exactly what to do, had done it many times before and was begging for more. She'd smoked two before the older girl arrived and smoked three more on film. The matter was reported by another parent who was shown the video because the offender thought they'd find it funny too.

 

I find it quite stunning. To do it is bad enough, but to think other people will laugh and appreciate your wit..... just bizarre. :shock:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Smoking - is inhaling in my book, and evidently in Bill Clinton's too! :wink: I'm not defending this pathetic episode, but eaqually I'm not going over the top with pompous indignation, when there are much more serious offences around with lighter sentencing. :roll:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

She was inhaling, Obs. He had taught a three year old to chainsmoke. Properly. Not mucking about holding a fag or just taking smoke into her mouth. This was not an isolated episode, it was that child's daily life.

 

He pleaded guilty to child neglect, so he got sentenced for that, and I suspect 18months is at the shorter end of the available term for it. He didn't get hammered for a prank.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well if there was a history, where were Social Services? :?

 

There was no history, nobody knew until he passed round his home movie - and Social Services aren't the SS you're thinking of there, Obs. They are not actually empowered to kick in doors and interrogate people without evidence. How were they to know if the neighbours didn't? ESP? Covert surveillance of every home?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems there was a similar case earlier this year when a three-year-old that had been reported missing, was found by the authorities under the bed smoking a fag. Shortly afterwards, while the mother was on the phone, the child apparently picked up a fag end out of an ashtray and lit it and this was recorded and used in evidence. The mother didn?t actually see this happening but none the less ended up with a criminal record for child neglect.

 

The thing is that children do tend to copy adults and a child can so easily end up doing this and I should know because it?s happened with my youngest grandchild. Fortunately for him he?s too young to use a lighter and fortunately for me there was no health visitor with a videophone, otherwise I?d probably be posting this from my cell. But before anyone starts, no I don?t normally smoke inside the house and especially if the kids are here, this was down to an unusual set of circumstances.

 

But back to proportionality and what constitutes a crime that merits a jail term. By all accounts, I could go out, get blind drunk, get involved in fights, urinate in public, cause a public nuisance and when the police arrive I can even be abusive to them and get away with it. On the other hand I could go out for a family meal and have someone video one of the kids drinking my pint while I?m not looking and I?m in very serious trouble.

 

Child neglect is serious and the druggie with the video in my opinion should have been put down rather than sent down but I do have some sympathy for the woman whose kid got hold of the fags in front of the social worker.

 

Bill :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Think it was YOU who said this was a regular event, who knew? If they knew, why wasn't it reported to the SS? Or could it be, that it wasn't a regular event? :roll:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Think it was YOU who said this was a regular event, who knew? If they knew, why wasn't it reported to the SS? Or could it be, that it wasn't a regular event? :roll:

 

I go to the toilet regularly - but the neighbours do not observe it. I eat meals regularly, but the local authorities do not monitor it. A man teaches a three year old to smoke on a regular basis in his own living room - who will see it? The evidence is that on the day it was filmed, the child inhaled, smoked at least five cigarettes and knew exactly how to go about it. Then, the offender admitted teaching her to smoke, the evidence went to court and he was found guilty of child neglect and given 18 months. You don't get 18 months and comments like the ones made by the judge if you're just some poor bloke whose judgement was a bit off on that occasion. And why are you defending this? You're usually pretty vocal on the subject of girls who smoke, drink, dope and get pregnant. He had this child smoking at three - how long before she was smoking his dope and sharing his beer?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not defending it - merely trying to get it in proportion to the host of other crimes that are inflicted on children and others these days, which receive lenient sentencing. As for "the history", there doesn't appear to be any proof of such, and fail to see how a 3 year old can be "trained" to inhale smoke - but perhaps the give away was the smoke issuing from the pram?! :wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He boasted about the history, admitted it in court and pleaded guilty to neglect. He wasn't accused of anything he didn't announce he'd done. You can teach a three year old to do almost anything - they learn by imitation. You can get them to swear, spit, hit people, drink beer and smoke. They don't know it's wrong. That's why what he did is so awful - it's a complete betrayal of trust.

 

And yes, there's a lot worse going on out there, but that just means other people should get locked up for a lot longer!! 18 months will only mean 9 months of enjoying bed, board and gardening privileges whilst the PC brigade sympathise with his tough childhood! :roll:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Have you seen the size of my shovel :shock:

 

No but apparently when presented with two shovels and told to take your pick; you were seen to be scratching your head for a while!! :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...