algy Posted August 4, 2013 Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 Boots Chemists are the latest to expect some of their staff to work under the terms of Zero hour contracts and state that those workers could be sent to work abroad. Also the unemployment figures are being manipulated as these contracts automatically class all persons that have entered into them as being employed although they are not guaranteed regular working hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted August 4, 2013 Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 Also the unemployment figures are being manipulated Never !!!! my gast is absolutely flabbered. I read also that the taxman is now making assumptions about what work you do, so if you work as a waiter in a restaurant or as a hairdresser, the taxman assumes that you will get £1000 per year in tips and so reduces the personal allowance by that amount. Meanwhile the bankers are now paying less tax on their bonuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 4, 2013 Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 Guess you couldn't make it up - the politicians are definitely living in a world of their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted August 4, 2013 Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 They managed to have zero hours contracts in place about 10 years ago at a warehouse i worked in that served a major diy company. The benefits for the company usually came into play on a Friday,knowing some of the work force would jump at going home early. After a while the staff preferred to stand about with a brush for two hours rather than lose two hours pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 4, 2013 Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 Were the work force unionised? Who negotiated the contracts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted August 4, 2013 Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 speaking as an employer..... why is it not good to pay people for what they actually work rather than to pay them for a full week; only to have them stand around for half the day doing nothing? just asking like Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 4, 2013 Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 Well it's not good for the employee, who presumably has bills to pay etc and wants a week's pay for a week's work, hence the invention of employment contracts. Presumably, maintaining orders is one of the skills of being a succesfull boss?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted August 4, 2013 Report Share Posted August 4, 2013 speaking as an employer..... why is it not good to pay people for what they actually work rather than to pay them for a full week; only to have them stand around for half the day doing nothing? just asking like You let your employees stand around and do nothing Gizza' job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 Were the work force unionised? Who negotiated the contracts? Yes it was unionised ,but it got started in a quiet period when the management casually announced that anyone who wanted to finish early could do so....it suited some of the people with no commitments ,in fact it suited most of the workforce originally till they realised how it affected their wages. I wasn't affected because i was on transport with a guaranteed working week. But how can any one with a zero hours contract expect to get a mortgage or any other loan for that matter ? I know,at one time anyone doing casual work,which is basically a zero hours contract, could sign on the dole for days they didn't work ,but i don't know if it still applies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 speaking as an employer..... why is it not good to pay people for what they actually work rather than to pay them for a full week; only to have them stand around for half the day doing nothing? just asking like Instead of speaking as an employer, start thinking as an employee and ask yourself the same question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 History will keep repeating itself, as long as each generation cares not to learn it's lessons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted August 5, 2013 Report Share Posted August 5, 2013 Since St George slew the Union dragon in the eighties the pendulum of union negotiating power has swung completely away from the working classes & has left a massive black hole in their spending power to the detriment of the business world in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 Watched an interesting TV prog about the German auto-industry, and how their Unions were allowed into the board room and made part of the decision making process, mutual co-operation has been proven to work for the Germans, rather than the mutual exploitation of the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted August 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 Watched an interesting TV prog about the German auto-industry, and how their Unions were allowed into the board room and made part of the decision making process, mutual co-operation has been proven to work for the Germans, rather than the mutual exploitation of the UK. Wouldn't work here obs, the Germans have a totally different attitude to work ethic, traditionally the average British worker and managment have no mutual respect for each other!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 Agree Alg, that's why they call it "the British disease"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 Instead of speaking as an employer, start thinking as an employee and ask yourself the same question. I thought.... and came to the same conclusion. Listening to a woman on the radio today who had a mail shot business. She previously employed 5 full time staff and then the work from her clients started to become less and less regular.... she still had to pay the staff but had no income to do so so she offered them the option.... either the company closes or they go onto casual or zero hour contracts. When the work is there they come in and work and get paid.... when it isn't; they don't. As she said; "I can't give them what I don't have" I have never used those contracts although I can see the benefits to some small employers who have an irregular client base etc. but what I do not agree with is the likes of Tesco, ASDA, etc. and other big, multi million pound, profit making companies using them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 Sounds to me like we're talking about fly by night business ventures, that aren't really viable in the first place; as for the big boys, I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted August 6, 2013 Report Share Posted August 6, 2013 Sounds to me like we're talking about fly by night business ventures, that aren't really viable in the first place; as for the big boys, I agree. why fly-by-night? The woman had a business and employed people full time until her clients changed their habits..... take the lefty hat off Obs and realise that any business is at the mercy of its clients..... lose them and the business is in big trouble.... at least by using zero hour contracts; some small businesses can survive and still pay taxes to feed you in your old age.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted August 7, 2013 Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 Tends not to be the small businesses that are using them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted August 7, 2013 Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 Tends not to be the small businesses that are using them. You are correct and the big companies should be stopped by law from using them...... there is no excuse for a multi million pound, profit making company to have people on zero hour contracts small business; as I say, I can see certain circumstances where they would fit in with the business model Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted August 7, 2013 Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 I've seem umpteen "small business" open like small shops, they last less than a year, until the next aspirant comes along; not what you would call steady employment Baz, and not a career path for all those kids leaving Uni with a degree in media studies!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted August 7, 2013 Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 I've seem umpteen "small business" open like small shops, they last less than a year, until the next aspirant comes along; not what you would call steady employment Baz, and not a career path for all those kids leaving Uni with a degree in media studies!. so you want to stifle enterprise then Obs? Why not just nationalise everything like it was in the 70's and completely screw the country (again)? Many businesses open and close for various reasons but while they are trading they pay tax, VAT etc. which all goes towards the big picture of the countries diverse economy What would you suggest? That every company opening up has to offer employment to at least 10 people and must trade for at least 5 years? The politics of the lefty again I see! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted August 7, 2013 Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 Why not just nationalise everything like it was in the 70's and completely screw the country (again)? Eh, the country is still screwed. If bosses can't afford to employ a person on a proper contract then they shouldn't be in business or they should do the work themselves. Working tax credits are for people on low wages. To claim working tax credits you have to work a minimum of either 16 hours or 32 hours (dependant on age) a week and earn below £13,000 per year. Zero hours contracts not only denies a person a living wage but also denies them the right to have that topped up to a living wage. Win win for the government, except that NI contributions will drop through the floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted August 7, 2013 Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 Agree with Wolfie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted August 7, 2013 Report Share Posted August 7, 2013 Like Baz says,some of these businesses couldn't function without an element of people being able to come in as & when required & that is something that should be a voluntary agreement from the out set.However, it isn't something that should be inflicted on a workforce or any single employee as being a compulsory condition of their contracts.Zero hours contracts as a matter of practice are no way to run a country & an economy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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