Museum sales and Missing Furniture ?

[Dizzy]

A 150 year old sideboard which once belonged to Shaw Thewlis, who was the Mayor of Warrington between 1865 and 1866 is up for auction this month at Chesther. A very kind and well respected gent by all acounts and who he was also a borough and county magistrate.

 

When he died he (c1885) he left £500 for the benefit of the 'aged poor', and the income of £14 2s. 4d., was used to purchase of blankets for poor widows.

 

Here's his sideboard by the way if anyone want's to bid on it... rather ugly though.

 

http://www.bonhams.com/eur/auction/18870/lot/829/Anyway why am I telling you all this.....

 

Well at the bottom of the auction page it also says that....

 

"In April 1849 Shaw Thewlis presented a copy of Samuel Thornton's The English Pilot, the Third Book, to Warrington Museum Library. This book was sold by Christie's on 28th November 2001 [Lot 95], for £16,450.

 

Why did they sell it after he obviously donated it for local people to enjoy.

 

Now some will say that it would be enjoyed by more if it was in a main museum BUT how do we know that is who bought it !?! It was probably bought by an individual who has split each page and individually mounted them for resale. It dates from c1703 by the way.

 

I have no idea why this is annoying me as I'm not into old sea maps, tales and the like but having just googled it it seems rather good.. I'm probably just rattled because the gent gave it to Warrington Museum and they sold it !! WAS IT EVER PUT ON DISPLAY BY THE WAY during the 150 years they had it or was it just stashed away gathering dust in their store rooms like many other old artefacts ????

 

Anyway rant over

[Dizzy]

Infact rant NOT over.....

 

Having gone round Walton Hall's open day on Sunday WHERE HAS ALL THE STUNNING ANTIQUE FURNITURE AND OTHER ARTEFACTS GONE that used to be in it.

 

HAVE THEY BEEN SOLD TOO !!!

 

I remember going in Lady Greenalls bedroom years ago when when the Hall was open and it was full of the Greenall families most stunning and original furniture. Infact the whole of Walton Hall was.

 

Not much left in there now other than some large fireplaces (which cnat be removed anyway) a handful of paintings, a large ornate carved cupboard and a piano.

[Dizzy]

back to original rant... here are some images from 'The English Pilot'.

 

 

 

 

 

[algy]

A 150 year old sideboard which once belonged to Shaw Thewlis, who was the Mayor of Warrington between 1865 and 1866 is up for auction this month at Chesther. A very kind and well respected gent by all acounts and who he was also a borough and county magistrate.

 

 

 

 

"In April 1849 Shaw Thewlis presented a copy of Samuel Thornton's The English Pilot, the Third Book, to Warrington Museum Library. This book was sold by Christie's on 28th November 2001 [Lot 95], for £16,450.

 

Why did they sell it after he obviously donated it for local people to enjoy.

 

Now some will say that it would be enjoyed by more if it was in a main museum BUT how do we know that is who bought it !?! It was probably bought by an individual who has split each page and individually mounted them for resale. It dates from c1703 by the way.

 

I have no idea why this is annoying me as I'm not into old sea maps, tales and the like but having just googled it it seems rather good.. I'm probably just rattled because the gent gave it to Warrington Museum and they sold it !! WAS IT EVER PUT ON DISPLAY BY THE WAY during the 150 years they had it or was it just stashed away gathering dust in their store rooms like many other old artefacts ????

 

Anyway rant over

 

On this site <http://www.loeb-larocque.com/ENGpiasa.php>

The ENGLISH PILOT appears to have been sold for 125,000 Euros.

[Dizzy]

That's the same site I looked at but I didn't notice the bright red sale price. I wonder if that one was OURS being resold by foreigners

 

I bet Warrington Museum wish they had held onto it for a bit longer now eh but I'd still like to know WHY they sold it after it was kindly given to them and whether it went to a private buyer or another museum, guess we'll never know eh.

 

Was it ever reported that they were selling it too...... ie did they tell anyone?

[algy]

If an artifact is purchased by the museum on behalf of the townspeople then I could probably accept they had a right to sell it at some future date if the proceedings of that sale were used in someway to purchase either another artifact of equal or increased interest to the towns public or perhaps to improve facilities within the museum building what I do find difficult to accept is that when an artifact that has been bequeathed to the people of the town the museum decide on behalf of those townspeople to dispose of it without consultation, discussion or representation, no doubt there will be some ruling in local law to allow them to do so. In my eyes they are out of order.

[Dizzy]

That is exactly what has caused my rant Algy and for some reason I'm getting even more annoyed about it now.... and I can't even get myself to upload my Walton Hall photos as the sparse rooms lacking period furniture and artefacts tis puzzling me too

 

Now we have no idea WHO bought Mayor Thewlis's unique book it after they decided to palm it off and it may be that it was actually bought by another museum who has a better place to diplay it or maybe a specialist maritime museum but I cant find anything to say that another museum has it.

 

I still don't think it's quite right because the kind gent donated it to Warrington but it wouldn't be so bad. Saying that maybe he knew it was very rare and would one day become valuable and that's why he despositied it with the museum some 36 yeard bofore his death. Perhaps he expected it to be sold at some time with the money being used to benefit the poor as he himself had strived to do... who knows?

 

And yes if a museum has bought something or just acuired it without it being specifically donated to them then to sell these wouldn't be so bad I guess UNLESS they were part of Warringtons local history or relevant in some way to the area.

 

It makes me wonder just how many other valuable items have been sold over the years that have been bequeathed to museums or how many are just stored away in boxes somewhere forgotten about and ignored..... the givers may well be turning in their graves.

 

So if anyone from Warrington Museum/Library/Council is reading this, to stop me dwelling on the matter, can you please reply and tell me where Mayor Thlewis's book went, was it to a private buyer or another museum, is it still in this country or did it go abroad, who decided to sell it and why, and also what was the money gained put towards.... thank you

[Dizzy]

PS.. and also where is all the furniture, paintings, ornaments and other artefacts which used grace Walton Hall ??

[Peter T]

Should these people be looking after the history of Warrington, if they have no feelings about it's history?

[algy]

Should these people be looking after the history of Warrington, if they have no feelings about it's history?

 

NO! they should not, Peter.