Really scary.

[asperity]

Where did you get the idea that I was a mere mortal from?

[P J]

Where did you get the idea that I was a mere mortal from?

 

hence the halley bloody looyah, all hail the prince of guessing

[asperity]

I'm just as qualified at guessing as anyone else it seems

[Lt Kije]

There would not have been enough banks left to cover the short fall, and even the ones that were not bailed out (Barclays) were still in big trouble, and so were not lending money to the private sector, in fact its still happening now, banks are not lending, bang goes your theory

[asperity]

make up your mind LtKije. the banks were iresponsible lending money so they crashed. now you want them to be iresponsible again?

[Lt Kije]

As you well know asperity Business needs the banks to lend money, something they are not doing much of at the moment, Your theory does not stand up

[asperity]

LtKije you are the one who is under the impression that the private sector consists of banks, not me. And I don't have a theory about what is wrong with the economy, it is staring us all in the face. Trouble is that most people think that the government knows what it's doing - don't you? Take the energy strategy for example. Put all our money into windfarms which are demonstably inefficient and extremely expensive, not to mention wasteful of land and resources. Give more money to the EUSSR so they can make our lives even more intolerable.

[Lt Kije]

Most of your last post I agree with

 

Business needs the banks to lend money for investment. No banks no investment. No investment no jobs, hence the private sector is shrinking.

[observer]

The private sector is like the engine of a ship, it's fine and good for empowering forward movement, but we still require someone to steer the ship. The problem was both Thatcher, Bliar and Brown courted the financial services sector, failed to harness and control it, and presided over the demise of our manufacturing base (you know, that sector which actually makes things, and hopefully exports them to produce a balance of payments in our favour). They tried to micro-manage a pseudo-capitalist economy by breaking up nationalised industries, then introducing OFthis and OFthat; to preside over this smoke and mirrors "competition", which in reality has turned into a cartel (as shown by the latest rise in energy prices), and left them open to foreign aquisition. So, we need a dynamic and productive manufacturing sector, in order to produce the wealth that supports improving standards of living for all. Whether we can out-produce, out-inovate and compete in terms of quality and price with low paid economies remains a mute point.

[Bazj]

You will never have a decent manufacturing base in this country again because of a number of reasons......

 

• * We have a minimum wage here and so the wage bills are astronomical compared with China, India and the like.
   
  * Now that most of our large manufacturing companies have sent all of the machinery that makes things to places like China and India; Johnny foreigner now has the technology to carry on making things even if the manufacturing companies did decide to come back to Britain and would still price us out of the market
   
  * You would need massive incentives to make it worth while employing people here to manufacture things..... little or no tax on profits, reduced NI, reduced rates etc. just as a starter

Just the way it is I guess. Hopefully the companies that do manufacture abroad will stay in British hands so that at least some of the profits are taxed to get money back in the UK so we can carry on opening leisure centres and hairdressing salons....

[observer]

Isn't that therefore the basic problem Baz; either we succumb to competitition from low paid economies, until such times that they become rich and pay higher wages, while our standard of living drops to their levels? OR, we seek to stay ahead of the competion through R&D and inovation, which requires a highly educated and skilled workforce.