Town Hall Politics

[inky pete]

as soon as the ignorant "I want it" mob start kicking off, weak kneed politicians (many with an interest) play to the crowd, and expediency takes over.

 

Is that not what democracy is all about? The wishes of the majority.

 

Having a policies and a local plan is all very well, but if it isn't delivering what people want then it's nothing but idealogical dogma.

[Geoffrey Settle]

I believe that HJ and the Bus station have delivered what was required.

 

Discussions about both projects would have been good examples to be captured on video at their respective Town Hall meetings. The plans and layouts/scale models could also have be seen.

 

As a regular user of the bus station I find it much better than the old antiquated one for many reasons, safety, access, information etc. There is also a new newsagent/sweet shop that like the cafe opens during the day.

 

Unfortunately there is now a move to close the information centre, in fact it may already have been closed with little or know consultation.

[observer]

Ink. I think your confusing "democracy" with the "rule of the mob"; "the mob" tend not to constitute "the majority"! Politicians make up the "rules", but alas are the quickest in breaking them - as we know from the recent Westminister scandal:

[Eagle]

But if the mob are in the majority and vote accordingly then that is democracy and the mob wins (or the elected representatives of the mob)

 

That isn't just politics it is simple arithmetic.

[Paul Kennedy]

Is that not what democracy is all about? The wishes of the majority.

 

 

True, but at times it is very difficult to determine the views of the majority....and hence the often used expression, the silent majority.

[Paul Kennedy]

Politicians make up the "rules", but alas are the quickest in breaking them - as we know from the recent Westminister scandal:

 

In the case of Westminster, the rules are not what you and I would understand to be rules, but rather ill defined guidelines open to individual, and in some cases quite disgraceful interpretation. All very depressing with pillaging the public purse by those with access to it becoming a national pastime.

[Geoffrey Settle]

Is that not what democracy is all about? The wishes of the majority.

 

 

True, but at times it is very difficult to determine the views of the majority....and hence the often used expression, the silent majority.

 

If they are so quiet Paul then how do you know what they are saying? or

 

Is it a term to be used when things are going against you that you use the term silent majority to conjure up the feeling of support? or

 

Because they can't be bothered to express an opinion one way or another do they not cancel themselves out.

 

Perhaps if they were to view Town Hall politics in the raw they might have an opinion but then if they really are the silent majority then maybe not.

[observer]

We've no gone full circle - the reality is; that only a minority of anoracks are interested in the machinations of the Town Hall or Westminister; the vast majority of folk are "switched off" from politics and the oft made comment "they are all the same", is nearer the truth than they realise. Every now and then, an issue will arise that directly impacts on some, who can then be MOBilised into a vocal pressure group, and tend to get get appeased by weak and inconsistent politicians - bit like the parent who gives his kid sweets to shut him up! As for "debate", whilst the verbal tennis can amuse; the reality is; that political parties make their decisions in private anyway and vote en bloc at the direction of their whips, regardless of the quality of arguement - hence around 90% of "politicians" won't even open their mouths, and are just their as voting fodder and to enjoy the jollies! Perhaps, this whole expensive and anachronistic process will be replaced by direct decision making by ALL the people via the internet?!

[Geoffrey Settle]

Hence the need to get the Town Hall meetings on the internet, after all that's where most youngsters get their information from so let's put decision making on that domain. Lets show the children of Warrington why their schools are being closed down and maybe peer pressure will increase on their parents to get involved to save their educational opportunities.

[observer]

Now we're getting to your motivation: flood an issue with ill informed, emotive arguement and whip up the mob. There are no doubt sound fiscal and statutory reasons for school closures; and all "mob pressure" would do is to create a permant state of political inertia, where fudge on decision making is constant. In theory, I personally would prefer more schools with more teachers, so we could finally get down to class sizes comparable to Eton and Harrow; plus the kids may actually "walk" to their local school, BUT: that would cost an arm and a leg - and the question then arises, are the "majority" of tax-payers prepared to pay for it? Alas, Councils have to operate within their means, strive for responsible value for money expenditure, and operate a balanced budget - at the same time staying within the straight jacket of Westminister and Brussels dictates. The political choice has always been fairly stark:- low taxation = low services: high taxation = higher service provision (given competant fiscal management of course!). And those who shout for this and that to be "kept open" are usually the ones that won't or don't pay the taxes.

[Geoffrey Settle]

Obs as a school governor I know how hard you have to fight on all these issues to keep a school open. I had to do this a number of years ago, fortunately the threat of closure was withdrawn and the school is now doing well. I therefore have every sympathy for those who are now facing closure.

 

I sat behind the leaders at the Irwell meeting (called to seal Woolston High's fate) and heard some of their comments. If only they had been recorded.

 

As I wlaked out at the break I spoke to Bob about his reservations which were interesting, especially as a local school where he had lived had also faced closure. On that occasion he voted with the exec. However is does seem that even he is now resisting the pack instinct when it comes to Longbarn but unfortuately too late.

[observer]

Perhaps in fighting to save one school, YOU could advise the powers that be, which other school should be closed. Then the folk who start to campaign to save that school, could suggest another and so on, thus going round in circles - budgets are finite, especially nowadays.

[Geoffrey Settle]

I didn't know that it was a game as you suggest of musical chairs, has your friend told you that this is what happens at the Town Hall? Schools in Warrington work together and support each other and do not do what you infer.

[Lt Kije]

Whats wrong with putting them on the internet and letting people decide, Its a bit like Tv if you don't like what you are watching turn over, put it on and let people vote with the feet

[observer]

Wake up Geoff and smell the coffee: all situations like school closures, planning apps etc are met by emotive nimby opposition. If the problem/threat moves on to somewhere/someone else - a sigh of relief and the game of musical chairs moves on. You clearly just want to televise decision making in order to influence such decision making - bit like the big turn-outs at planning meetings where the objectors surround the planning committee - intimidation or what?! Schools get closed whichever Party is in control, and the opposition make the best political use of such decisions.