Lt Kije Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Where do you base your facts from Observer, Is it the anti European press by any chance which you choose to take as fact, or have you done your own investigation You have to wonder why an Australian media mogal Peruses such a press campaign against Europe, do you not think he might have an agenda of his own. The British press never tell you of any thing positive from Europe only negative things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 But Sgt, not all of the press is owned by an Austrailian... So if the press don't as a rule say positive things about Europe, isn't that a giveaway that there aren't many positive things to say? Maybe you would like to list the positive things here?; maybe the Human Rights act (aka criminals charter) or the positive fact that British Citizens can be prosecuted for selling fuit in pounds and ounces instead of kilos..... I can't wait!! Look, we will never agree on this, but I do urge you to watch that video link, or at least part of it. It shows how our national sovereignty is being eroded to Brussels. How Every month, at the cost of tens of thousands of Euros a month, the European Parliament upped sticks and moved from Strasbourg to Brussels and back again... and how the anti Europeans believe that the MP's in this country do not have the legal rights to hand over powers to Europe because of our own bill of rights and Magna Carta etc. The one bit that had me nodding in approval was when one chap asked why would a country which has been an independant trading nation for 100's of years would want to be tied down and ruled by another nation....... makes no sense to me either, but no doubt you can now put some arguments for the European Union to counter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Kyje, "facts" are in the mind of the beholder, "statistics" can be manipulated to suit any arguement, these are the tools of politicians. What we do have are the "perceptions" and personal "experience" of ordinary folk, who don't need the press to tell them what they can see with their own eyes. You and your ilk are the one's that are out of step with public opinion, and hopefully this will be shown in comming elections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 So what are your personal perceptions based on Observer, is it the press or media per chance, and what have you actually seen with your own eyes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 How are we supposed to base our perceptions? We can't all be politicians with access to the Euro Parliament you know!! If there wasn't such waste and abuse in Europe, the press wouldn't get all worked up about it would they? I mean it must be so tempting to break the rules because I believe that at the moment, 2 UKIP members have been done for financial itrregularities and one for fraud when claiming expenses.... so the very people who put themselves up to expose the corruption and waste are themselves sucked into the mire... another example.... a standard ticket from Stanstead to Brussels costs about ?42.00. The allowance for the journey is nearer to ?800.00 and that is what some Scottish MEP's can claim as they are allowed to claim for a first class ticket plus a distance allowance of nearly ?200.00 (?100.00 if in England) Tidy profit eh? and all tax free too!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Well that's funny Kyje: walking through Town today, I picked up on a conversation of four young folk sat on a wall - and thought I was in Warsaw. Then in the S/market, yet more foreign tongues, like being in the UN building - mind you, it's led to a new game of "guess the nationality". Alas, that's just personal experience, so won't cut any ice with you. PS. I don't read or buy any newspapers; and I don't think the BBC is prone to hard right or hard left propaganda. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Just goes to prove how personal experience can be wrong, you probably put those four young folk down as Poles stealing British jobs They could have been students without asking them observer we will never know, Is the glass half empty or half full Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 So the chances that they "students" is equal to them being economic migrants? My god man, what planet are you on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I don't think students are economic migrants. What a wonderful word Perceptions is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 and now you can't even read properly. I never said that students were economic migrants, I said they are highly likey to be economic migrants and highly unlikely to be students I'm sure that in your world of Euro heaven Sgt, you will always have work and always be able to put food on the table to feed your kids.... and if the day ever comes when your bosses at the power station finish you up so that they can employ sergei at half the money; then I am sure you will be more than happy with your lot. You could of course head out to Poland and get a job over there on half as much money as you are on now(if they will employ you in the first place) and chance your arm in one of their sub-standard power stations; where I'm sure they operate in line with all of the latest EU directives on H&S You really do live in a dream world! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Kyje, please tell me that the recent demonstration outside Parliament by 5.000 Tamils, was an illusion. Given they were at it for more than 24hrs, can we safely assume they are unemployed? And if they were students, rather than benefit claimants, shouldn't they be attending classes? An ideal opportunity to have rounded them all up, and shipped them back to Sri Lanka, to sort out the problems they are complaining (over here) about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Kennedy Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Think they would claim asylum.....if they haven't already Observer. It is alleged that the Sri Lankan (Ceylon in old money ) Government is committing genocide against the Tamils. I understand that Tamils are going to start protesting outside Marks & Spencer shops...as they buy clothing made in Sri Lanka....not sure how much though...just looked at a shirt from M&S and it's made in Cambodia and a pair of trousers made in Indonesia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 As I understand it: International Law as prescribed by the Dublin Treaty - requires "political assylum" to be sought and granted by the NEXT NEAREST safe Country to the Country of origin. This means that these Tamils should be hosted by India, rather than travelling half way round the world to "the land of milk and honey". As for "student visas"; seems 11 out 12 suspects in the latest terrorism round-up, were Pakistan Nationals who have entered this Country on Student Visas granted by our High Commission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 I thought we were talking about 4 Poles in Warrington As to the latest arrests, you have a point the student visa system needs looking at But please don't put the many who come to learn in with these. A determined terrorist will exploit any way to get into the Country That is a problem in a free society, as the only way to stop them would be to curtail some freedoms we all cherish, or to actually have a big brother state, but that I think is for another topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted April 10, 2009 Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 No it wouldn't at all.... it would not curtail my liberties one bit if we had more stringent border or immigration controls. The only people it would inconvenience would be the immigrants which isn't my problem is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2009 We were talking about "facts", and the best source of "facts" is personal experience; hence my anecdotal example of an increasing presence of foreign nationals in this Country, which I could add to. People using the student visa as a method of gaining entry into the UK has been going on for years now, and we receive 10,000 per year from Pakistan alone. Every time there is some international cause in the news: be it Tibet, Zimbawe and now Sri Lanka - there is no shortage of nationals of the said country to organise a demo - well perhaps they should be demonstrating back in their home countries, rather than being a burden on our benefits system. As for the threat of terrorism: radical Islam, is an ideology, and like any ideology can act like a contagion, and as with contagious diseases the only preventative action is isolation and containment. So given the main source of this contagion is currently Pakistan (clearly now a failed State with an atomic bomb ), it would seem appropriate to cease all UK entry to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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