Coup d'etat?

[observer]

When is a Military coup, not a Military coup?

[Bazj]

when its ajar?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

oh no.... that's a door!!

[Cleopatra]

When the Egyptian army says it's not a military coup.

[Lt Kije]

I thought the Egyptian army did a grand job, And I think Israel will be sleeping a little better

 

Just hope the army can keep a lid on the brotherhood, The World and the Egyptian people don't need or want a blood bath, it would be a sad fate for a proud people!!!!!!!

[observer]

Thought you liberal luvvies were all for the democratic process Kije?! The message this sends out around the world to political Islam, is that the ballot box is a waste of time and that the bullet and the bomb are the way forward. Yet more political expediency and hypocracy from the West, which will ensure many "blood baths" to come.

[Lt Kije]

Think you will find I have said Islam and democracy don't work, never have and never will. Best to have a strong dictator or an army general who can keep a lid on the militant idiots, their are a few semi successful city states but most Countries that claim to be both Muslim and Democratic are failing, or what passes as a democracy there, is a pale  imitation of Western democracy

[asperity]

what Lt Kije says

[observer]

Think we can agree on the idea of a strong secular Dictator running these countries; if western politicians had had the common sense to realise that in the first place; we'd have had no involvement in Iraq, Afghanistan or the Arab Spring. However, that's not been the reality; which has consisted of clowns like Bliar telling the world that our brand of democracy and freedom is the only option. SO, having established that principle, they should abide by it imo, even if these Muslims can't run a whelk stall, THEY were elected by a majority, and should have served their term of office. As I said, the message sent out to the world is that the bullet and the bomb is the only way to go, so don't be surprised at the next Woolwich incident, hypocracy has it's price.

[Lt Kije]

Obs, we were always going into Iraq as it was always about oil.

[Cleopatra]

http://bcove.me/1qqhk3um

 

Watch one so young speaking so much sense.

[Lt Kije]

Well rehearsed , but can you name a successful Muslim democracy. Most old World Countries have realized you have to split religeon and State, until Muslims are willing to do so, one will always interfere with the other. Those with religious power in Muslim Countries are not willing to give up power, and use the illiterate and uneducated as their foot soldiers.

 

[observer]

Can't say that I support any theocracy, as imo, it's destined to impede progress and wallow in a past era. However, "the West" has been supporting these "revolutions", without any idea as to the consequences; they've been trying to export the idea of "western democracy", failing to understand the history of these Arab Nations or the fact that we only arrived at our imperfect "democracy" through hundreds of years of suffering and bloodshed. SO; if we are promoting "democracy", we are duty bound to stand by the outcomes of elections. Sorry Kije, it may be inconvenient; but you can't have it both ways.

[Lt Kije]

Don't want it both ways, let the generals rule, if it keeps a lid on the idiots, I would advocate democracy if it stands a chance of succeeding, Muslim Countries are not those places, try again in a couple of hundred years, we could tell them that their Imans have not got their best interests at heart but I doubt they would believe us and we would probably have someone declaring jihad against us.

[Cleopatra]

Are you confusing imams with hate preachers? There is a difference.

[Lt Kije]

Yes there is a great deal of difference between Imams and hate preachers Cleo, but sadly most imams do not want a separation between church and state either , But you are correct Imams and the preachers of hate are not the same, I am sorry if this coursed offence. Most freedoms in the West were won at high cost over many years, many in the muslim world see them and want them, many of the freedoms are not conducive to the muslim religion at the moment. It needs to modernise, The christian church went though a similar thing when Darwin wrote his book, He was a great catalyst for the churches to wake up smell the coffee and adapt to a modern age, I have no doubt the muslim religion will do the same, but I don't think it is quite their yet.

[observer]

Kije, you either adhere to the principle of democracy or you don't, you can't pick and choose to suit your whims. A majority of the Egyptian electorate voted for Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood; probably in view of his opponent being viewed as the Mubarek establishment candidate; but like all elections, they have to live with their decision for the term of office - in a democracy. Mind you, why are we not surprised at your expediency - after all, you support an EU, that only accepts the results of referendums they agree with!

[Lt Kije]

So it was a democracy in Egypt, I think you had better check, We are talking about a man although voted into office then gave himself extra powers that the constitution said could not be done, to change the constitution of the Country, not a shinning light of democracy is it Obs. Can I take it from this you support the muslim brotherhood in there smuggle to take back power. you might have had a leg to stand on Obs if he had not abused his power. As to your remark on the EU very cheap, interesting the Muslim Brotherhood were usurping power the same way one of your heroes did in Germany in the 30s after all he was elected into power as well.

[Bazj]

So it was a democracy in Egypt, I think you had better check, We are talking about a man although voted into office then gave himself extra powers that the constitution said could not be done, to change the constitution of the Country, not a shinning light of democracy is it Obs. Can I take it from this you support the muslim brotherhood in there smuggle to take back power. you might have had a leg to stand on Obs if he had not abused his power. As to your remark on the EU very cheap, interesting the Muslim Brotherhood were usurping power the same way one of your heroes did in Germany in the 30s after all he was elected into power as well.

 

I might also point out that after our 1970's referendum on membership of the EEC; we Britains were conned into joining a massive Euro-superstate. Our (unwritten) constitution was ignored and we were taken into something that nobody here has ever voted for.....

 

There is no difference.... The Muslim Brotherhood won the election; true enough, but by then trying to change the laws so that they could alter things without ever having to face a challenge was the bit that tipped the balance and the now majority realised that they had been conned..... That's why UKIP is doing so well because the exact same thing has happened here.... albeit for different goals by the men in power

[Lt Kije]

Obs are you supporting the Muslim Brotherhood in their struggle to take back power, you can't have it both ways you know!

[observer]

I wouldn't be supporting any religious involvement in politics, or indeed influence upon social culture generally. Hence my view that religious belief and therefore it's extremes are eradicated through scientific and secular education, and relagated to a solely private pass time, unlike your luvvie friends who promote all kinds of backward behaviour in the name of diversity. However, the reality was, that Morsi was allowed to stand, and was elected by a majority vote, in an attempt at democracy that the West insisted upon. So, now that this experiment in freedom and democracy has backfired, you want to change the rules to suit. I've no doubt that Morsi and Co couldn't run a whelk store or were confounded by the Judicial and Military establishment, and Egypt was heading for an economic mess; however, at the end of the day, he was democratically elected and should have served a full term - end of. As for your alleged unconstitutional activities by Morsi; the constitution was (or should have been) guarded by the constitutional court, presumably set up for that very purpose; the leading Judge of whom has now been named President. Tis your short termism and expediency that allows you to start a game, and when you lose, insist on changing the rules.

[Lt Kije]

I don't want to change the rules, Morsi  changed the rules by grabbing extra power he was not entitled to, and changing the constitution, something you are forgetting as it does not suit what you are trying to say, something you quite often do.

[Bazj]

I don't want to change the rules, Morsi  changed the rules by grabbing extra power he was not entitled to,

 

Just as the EU have done to us Kije..... where is the difference?

[Lt Kije]

have they, do we not sit on the Council of Ministers Baz, do you actually know how the EU works, or just what you read in the sceptic press?

[Bazj]

I know that I have never had a vote to be in it and when my mum and dad voted it was to be part of a trading block; not a euro superstate with unelected foreigners making laws for my country....

 

You obviously have no idea how the EU works otherwise you would want no part of it like the MAJORITY of people in the UK

[Lt Kije]

Majority ??????

 

 In your opinion !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!