observer Posted April 15, 2007 Report Share Posted April 15, 2007 There's a prog running just now; which is investigating through DNA samples, the origins of the British population. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Posted April 15, 2007 Report Share Posted April 15, 2007 I am a human being - of many ancestors and I am proud of all of them. [ 15.04.2007, 03:14: Message edited by: Mary ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2007 thought you were Irish?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonymaillman Posted April 15, 2007 Report Share Posted April 15, 2007 A proportion of the North-West is also of Viking origin vast majority of place names derive from old Norse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2007 Yes: but the DNA testing appears to be the best way of identifying racial origins, as it is free from cultural contamination. They checked folk in the area of Pembroke, where it was thought Viking raids may have altered to local genetic make up; however the majority were found to be Celtic. The last one of these DNA progs I saw, did find a pronounced Viking gene in the Wirral Area. :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Posted April 15, 2007 Report Share Posted April 15, 2007 I do have some Irish in my DNA - What about you Observer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonymaillman Posted April 15, 2007 Report Share Posted April 15, 2007 There IS a pronounced Viking gene throughout Wirral ........ obviously ! first place of landing (after Anglesey) after the expulsion from Dublin in 902 AD. Settled and remained in the region for good after that - although their attempt to take Chester in 907 was resisted. Thus was created a 'sandwich' of Anglo-Saxon settling, between here and Jorvik. Eventually there was a mixed settling from both Saxon and Viking people, good example being the Saxon name of Frodsham and the Viking name Helsby ........ close settlements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2007 Think the prog is doing E/Anglia next week; so presumably Anglo-Saxon, unless those Flemish weavers left their mark. :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonymaillman Posted April 16, 2007 Report Share Posted April 16, 2007 Never watch much history stuff on TV obs ........ but this does look ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2007 .. it's the Scots chappie; who does "Coast" and started out doing "two men in a trench". :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonymaillman Posted April 16, 2007 Report Share Posted April 16, 2007 Scots chappie ?? ......... Wallace ya mean ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2007 No it's not Bill; nor Grommet either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2007 Watched the prog last night; presented by Niell Oliver (the scots chappie!); well I got it wrong. The Geordies arn't Viking, well "Norse" Viking; they are 75% Anglo- Saxon. Why? :confused: Well, the "Danish" Vikings were the same racial stock as the Angles and Jutes, they just appeared around 200 years later. :confused: Apparently the nearest linguistic relationship with English, is a Dutch dialect found in N/Holland. :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonymaillman Posted April 22, 2007 Report Share Posted April 22, 2007 Missed it Obs sounds a good programme as well !! Quite right, the Anglo-Saxons were well established in Northumbria long before the Lindisfarne and other raids in that area from 793 AD onwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 22, 2007 True, but the subsequent population was by Danish Vikings, who carried the same Anglo-Saxon gene. Next week, he's going to examine the input to the gene pool of the Norse Vikings, who settled in the Isle of Man, Dublin, the Wirral etc: and also the Normans (who were actually descended from Danish Vikings themselves!). :confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonymaillman Posted April 22, 2007 Report Share Posted April 22, 2007 Yep ! the good old Normans were actually Vikings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Posted April 22, 2007 Report Share Posted April 22, 2007 Of course they were Vikings - Norsemen - Normans - duhhh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonymaillman Posted April 22, 2007 Report Share Posted April 22, 2007 You'd be surprised how many don't know that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Posted April 23, 2007 Report Share Posted April 23, 2007 Now that is sad, very sad indeed. I was just watching very interesting program on the Arthur legend. Quite compelling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2007 Back to the original topic: following the study of DNA samples throughout the British population, it appears that the average is split between - Celtic 51% and Anglo-Saxon 49%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonymaillman Posted April 28, 2007 Report Share Posted April 28, 2007 That's because your Norse were active on the west coast and in Ireland ........ the very areas where the Celts and Britons were 'pushed' back to during the Angle, Saxon and Jute invasions of the early 5th century. Plus you also have your Hiberno-Norse. The Viking/Angle/Saxon and Jute were as you say basically of the same northern European origin .......... there was in fact no name for what we now know as the Vikings, the name simply derives from 'Vikinga' which means a raider or pirates, hence the much used term of 'Northmen' or 'men from the North' in surviving texts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted April 28, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 28, 2007 Actually Tone; it seems the Norse raiders were mainly men; bringing few (if any) women with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonymaillman Posted April 28, 2007 Report Share Posted April 28, 2007 There is no records of Viking women on raids to put it mildly the influx of families started once they established settling of areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Posted April 28, 2007 Report Share Posted April 28, 2007 Could women be Vikings? Strictly speaking, they could not. The Old Norse word vikingar is exclusively applied to men, usually those who sailed from Scandinavia in groups to engage in the activities of raiding and trading in Britain, Europe and the East. But some Vikings stayed behind in these regions, and Scandinavian colonies were also established in the North Atlantic (Faroe, Iceland, Greenland). '... a permanent population could only be established if women also made the journey ...' Women could and did play a part in this process of settlement. Iceland, for instance, was uninhabited, and a permanent population could only be established if women also made the journey there. In regions with an established indigenous population, Viking settlers may have married local women, while some far-roving Vikings picked up female companions en route, but there is evidence that Scandinavian women reached most parts of the Viking world, from Russia in the east to Newfoundland in the west. Most journeys from Scandinavia involved sea-crossings in small, open ships with no protection from the elements. Families heading for the North Atlantic colonies would also have to take all the livestock they would need to establish a new farm, and the journey cannot have been pleasant. The Viking colonists settled down to the farming life in their new home, or established themselves as traders and became town-dwellers. Both farming and trading were family businesses, and women were often left in charge when their husbands were away or dead. There is also evidence that women could make a living in commerce in the Viking Age. Taken from: web page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goonerman Posted April 29, 2007 Report Share Posted April 29, 2007 Don't forget the fearsome Freya, who scared the Native Americans coming to attack the Viking Vinland settlement in Newfoundland. Apparently a Runic inscription dating from at least as late as 1364 was found in Kansas! Then there is the small matter of the tribe of White, blonde-haired European featured Eskimos found in Canada and also the fact that La Crosse was picked up by the Native Americans from the Vikings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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