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Geoffrey Settle

Warrington's bid for City of Culture 2021 DOESN'T reach the FINAL 5

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Dizzy    293

Greyman, the Stoneybridge promotional video link you posted was so funny  :lol: :lol: :lol:

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grey_man    172
6 hours ago, Dizzy said:

Greyman, the Stoneybridge promotional video link you posted was so funny  :lol: :lol: :lol:

It was a great show. Most of them seem to do the voices on Peppa Pig these days :)

The real tragedy of that bin video with Lisa Appleton is that it was set up. Real celebs tip off the paps about a chance to take pictures of their new beach body when they're on holiday in Martinique. Lisa offers them a photo opp of her taking the bins out in an eight year old's dressing gown in the pissing rain in Orford. :)

Meanwhile, latest updates from the council's city of culture bid for the Easter weekend. 

 

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Dizzy    293

I thought maybe you just weren't seeing events so I manually looked too....and yes you are right there are NO events listed... not for now or even in the coming months.
There are three past one's listed ie 2 from last year and 1 from earlier this year though if you click the link.  Oh dear...only 3 in total ? 

Blimey that's not a good start is it especially as google finds that page with ease.

Surely the people running all this have some events planned to add to their page.  Goodness me I'm imagining all the other towns/cities who are also competing, and of course the status decision makers too, having a little nosey to see what the competition is like etc and seeing that and questioning in their own minds why on earth we are entering if we can;t even be bothered to put any events on and to embrace it all.

Of course there probably are lots of events on in Warrington....somewhere or other.....any idea where or when :unsure:

As for the bin lady...well I'm not giving her any more air space other than to say 'yes clearly set up and probably filmed by one of her equally classy mates lol'.  It's still making me cringe and I might even delete the link to it...yeuch !!

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grey_man    172

Well obviously things will be going on this weekend and over the coming weeks. My own daughter is taking part in a couple of things that could easily go on the website. The tragedy is that it's as part of a thriving local theatre company that will have to perform at the Brindley because the council turned down the opportunity to build a theatre when it had the chance. It's come to something when there's more culture in Runcorn.   

But I have a pet theory about what is going on with this bid. WBC has just received a third share in a £300,000 grant from the Arts Council. It's been stung by the RSA report a couple of years back and the pig's ear it has made of its puppet organisation's 'strategy' for the libraries. So it's using the money to have a punt on City of Culture.

The problem it's got is that it doesn't really think it has much of a chance of winning. And it's right. When you look at the facilities, artefacts and programme of events, Warrington can't compete with a typical town of a quarter of its size, as WADAC have pointed out. This is why the bid is based on the not even half-baked premise that 'culture' is about the economy and the people of the town.       

The clincher is that this is really all about the council's obsession with becoming a city. It's not even bothered about culture as you can see from its lukewarm response to WADAC's modest proposal to find a site for a statue of Joseph Priestley in the town centre, never mind a theatre. So it feels the bid will up its profile, but there's no point putting much effort into it. And so they aren't. 

That website is pathetic by the way but it does tell you a lot about the self-absorption of the council. On the home page they could have a had a great quote about culture from any number of great minds such as Gandhi ('A nation's culture resides in the hearts and in the soul of its people'), but instead they've used one from the Councillor for Great Sankey. And that picture on the homepage is five years old. Along with the fact it has no news and no events, tells you all you need to know. 

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Dizzy    293

If you look on the Pyramid/Par Hall & Museums website there are things going on now and in the not so distant future...and beyond too...so I wonder why all those aren't linked in on the 2021 website to at least show that events are being staged here all the time?  Gawd...how difficult can it be !!

Re you mentioning your daughter performing at the Brindley Greyman,  I hope she enjoys ever minute of it, which I'm sure she will :D  I bet you will be super proud when you watch her :D

I wonder why so many groups are opting to use the Brindley though.    I know the Cody's group, who used to perform mostly in Warrington, now use the Brindley too.  I've never been there though so have no idea if it's a better staging environment or perhaps more accessible for the audience or something.  Do you know how it compares to Warrington's Parr Hall for example.

I did go to a musical event at the Parr Hall last year and wow it was fantastic.  The staging was great and so was the lighting. sound and acoustics.  I couldn't fault it and had a fantastic night and it exceeded all my expectations.  

Could it just be that people are not realising the true capability of the Parr Hall ?

As for the proposed statue of Joseph Priestley...nice idea and yes he was a very prominent and influential man back in his time although many have probably never even heard of him.  I also doubt that may will ever give his statue a second look though after a few weeks :(  

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grey_man    172

There's nothing wrong with the Parr Hall as a concert venue. But a theatre is a different thing. Warrington's problem is that culture is not supported by the local administration, which is why groups who are active in the town have to go somewhere else to perform. The council should be ashamed that talented people from Warrington have to perform in Runcorn to be seen. There are similar dynamics with the town's heritage, parks and other cultural activities. The council give the impression they'd cheerfully tear it all down in favour of retail parks, housing estates and business parks given the chance, but it's local people and local groups who have to act as a bulwark. There's no better example than what happened with Walton Hall but you can add the libraries to the list.

They had the chance to address many of these issues with the Bridge Street development and turned it down. They can't now pretend they're bothered about culture and heritage with a half-arsed bid for City of Culture status that they've already made all about them.

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17 hours ago, Dizzy said:

If you look on the Pyramid/Par Hall & Museums website there are things going on now and in the not so distant future...and beyond too...so I wonder why all those aren't linked in on the 2021 website to at least show that events are being staged here all the time?  Gawd...how difficult can it be !!

Re you mentioning your daughter performing at the Brindley Greyman,  I hope she enjoys ever minute of it, which I'm sure she will :D  I bet you will be super proud when you watch her :D

I wonder why so many groups are opting to use the Brindley though.    I know the Cody's group, who used to perform mostly in Warrington, now use the Brindley too.  I've never been there though so have no idea if it's a better staging environment or perhaps more accessible for the audience or something.  Do you know how it compares to Warrington's Parr Hall for example.

I did go to a musical event at the Parr Hall last year and wow it was fantastic.  The staging was great and so was the lighting. sound and acoustics.  I couldn't fault it and had a fantastic night and it exceeded all my expectations.  

Could it just be that people are not realising the true capability of the Parr Hall ?

As for the proposed statue of Joseph Priestley...nice idea and yes he was a very prominent and influential man back in his time although many have probably never even heard of him.  I also doubt that may will ever give his statue a second look though after a few weeks :(  

It's a lovely theatre, easy parking and close to the Runcorn Bridge - nice café and small art gallery - The Centenary Theatre Company http://www.centenarytheatre.co.uk/ have some great amateur productions - I think I went to 4 last year. In addition there were a few school competitions, primary and 2ndary in which Warrington Schools did very well - I was even invited on stage with the Mayor of Widnes to congratulate competitors - so I go to see the back stage as well. Real comfy seats and visibility and acoustics very good. Well worth a visit :)

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Dizzy    293
6 hours ago, Togger1 said:

Thanks Togger and yes they do list things on there which is good

Why are the events not also linked into the other 2012 website though so they are viewable and accessible from there too after all people might be googling Warrington 2012 City of Culture....or searches to that effect.

I wonder if perhaps the 2012 Website that we have all been looking at isn't actually an official one though.  After all anyone can set up a website these days and that could explain it I suppose. 

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Dizzy    293
17 hours ago, grey_man said:

There's nothing wrong with the Parr Hall as a concert venue. But a theatre is a different thing. Warrington's problem is that culture is not supported by the local administration, which is why groups who are active in the town have to go somewhere else to perform. The council should be ashamed that talented people from Warrington have to perform in Runcorn to be seen. There are similar dynamics with the town's heritage, parks and other cultural activities. The council give the impression they'd cheerfully tear it all down in favour of retail parks, housing estates and business parks given the chance, but it's local people and local groups who have to act as a bulwark. There's no better example than what happened with Walton Hall but you can add the libraries to the list.

They had the chance to address many of these issues with the Bridge Street development and turned it down. They can't now pretend they're bothered about culture and heritage with a half-arsed bid for City of Culture status that they've already made all about them.

I tend to agree with you on all that. 

Why is the Par Hall no good for local Theatre productions though?  Is it because of the seating arrangements with some being upper floor or something else ?

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grey_man    172
4 hours ago, Dizzy said:

I tend to agree with you on all that. 

Why is the Par Hall no good for local Theatre productions though?  Is it because of the seating arrangements with some being upper floor or something else ?

It will do for that purpose but it's not a theatre. The Brindley is a great little venue as a local theatre and exactly the sort of thing that the Bridge Street development should have been about. Just imagine how that could have shifted perceptions of Warrington. Instead the town is offered council offices - dead space in the evenings never mind all the other problems with what they're doing - alongside a cinema and chain restaurants that will make it just like any other place. It will have as much culture as the Halton Centre.   

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grey_man    172
4 hours ago, Dizzy said:

Thanks Togger and yes they do list things on there which is good

Why are the events not also linked into the other 2012 website though so they are viewable and accessible from there too after all people might be googling Warrington 2012 City of Culture....or searches to that effect.

I wonder if perhaps the 2012 Website that we have all been looking at isn't actually an official one though.  After all anyone can set up a website these days and that could explain it I suppose. 

My answer would be what I've already suggested. This bid is not about culture, Warrington or its people. It's about the council. In fact pretty much everything they do is like that.   

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Togger1    2
5 hours ago, Dizzy said:

Thanks Togger and yes they do list things on there which is good

Why are the events not also linked into the other 2012 website though so they are viewable and accessible from there too after all people might be googling Warrington 2012 City of Culture....or searches to that effect.

I wonder if perhaps the 2012 Website that we have all been looking at isn't actually an official one though.  After all anyone can set up a website these days and that could explain it I suppose. 

perhaps they are waiting until they launch the bid officially?I found the link by googling the words Warrington and Culture,  and it's the 2021 COC not the 2012 ????

 

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grey_man    172
26 minutes ago, Togger1 said:

perhaps they are waiting until they launch the bid officially?I found the link by googling the words Warrington and Culture,  and it's the 2021 COC not the 2012 ????

 

It has been launched and the final bid document is due to the organisers in 11 days. You should see what the other cities are doing with their bids to contrast it to Warrington's. So far that seems to consist of kids in t-shirts by 'the mural' and statements from the council about culture not being about culture. Their message to the organisers seems to be that they've got culture all wrong. So good luck with that. 

This is Coventry's bid website. https://coventry2021.co.uk/

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Togger1    2

I think there is a launch to coincide with the final bid being given in.  Hopefully its not when you start but where you finish.  If it can help culture and the arts in this town by bidding for it I wish the bid well,  its far too easy to be cynical , I would sooner join in the fun .  But then I am from Warrington and do realise that a lot of people who live here seem to want to be elsewhere, not sure what the hold is that the town has though :) 

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grey_man    172
22 minutes ago, Togger1 said:

I think there is a launch to coincide with the final bid being given in.  Hopefully its not when you start but where you finish.  If it can help culture and the arts in this town by bidding for it I wish the bid well,  its far too easy to be cynical , I would sooner join in the fun .  But then I am from Warrington and do realise that a lot of people who live here seem to want to be elsewhere, not sure what the hold is that the town has though :) 

Where we differ is that I don't think the bid has anything to do with culture. The council has very little interest in culture and never misses a chance to prove it. It's to do with the council's self-image and an obsession with becoming a city. What culture there is in the town is down to its people who have to create it in the face of an indifferent and occasionally obstructive council. In the very unlikely event that the town wins the bid, I can guarantee the council will make it all about itself.  

Warrington is a great place to live in many ways but to make it better, it needs an authority that is less focused on itself and more focused on the town and its population. 

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Togger1    2

I have always found Culture Warrington to be wonderfully supportive of mine and others arts projects, have you had poor dealings with them Greyman?  I can only speak from my personal experience and have found their skill, enthusiasm and support excellent.  

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grey_man    172

Culture Warrington isn't the council and even then we're not talking about anything exceptional. So there are two points I'd make. One is that the council has little interest in culture. That much is clear when you look at the opportunities it turned down with the Bridge St development and its attempts to sell off and destroy cultural assets over many years. We have to be grateful to the people of Warrington and their voluntary organisations for standing up to the council on occasion. Without them the place would be a desert. The fact local theatre groups have to perform in Runcorn is humiliating for WBC. Or would be, if they cared.  

The other is that you have to compare Warrington with other towns and it fares very badly indeed, as WADAC pointed out the other day. My actual hometown is Newcastle under Lyme. It has more cultural assets than Warrington yet is only about half the size. A comparable sized city like Portsmouth has five theatres, three musical venues and numerous cultural landmarks. Northampton has two theatres and again far more cultural assets than Warrington. The same is true of Gateshead.  

But you get the point. Warrington needs to address these discrepancies and support culture locally instead of blocking it all the time.  

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Togger1    2

But Culture Warrington along with the Council are part of the bid so perfectly relevant to mention their good work.  Local theatre groups can perform at the Parr Hall , and do, but I also wish we had a really nice theatre, and the Louvre, the Vatican and a Pyramid (well we have one of those) but don't think we have the money:wink:  I imagine if the Council announced a plan to build a new theatre today there would be a whole load of moaners complaining about it, regardless.   I looked back through your posts and can see a common thread,  you do like to grind your axe against the Council at every opportunity don't you? Anyway, not here to argue simply to point out that there are many cultural events on offer in Warrington, a thriving artistic and cultural community, some fantastic young musicians and some dedicated professionals trying their best to help and support them from some fabulous cultural locations.

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grey_man    172

The council does have the money though. It's just choosing to spend it on itself. I think Warrington is held back by the council in many ways. It is true, I have a real problem with its lack of accountability, openness and its self-absorption. We probably want the same things for the town. I just don't think they'll happen without a serious overhaul of the council's approach. 

There isn't a thriving cultural scene in Warrington for a town of its size. I'm not alone in thinking this. And the local artistic community has to go to another town to perform, which should be an embarrassment to the people at the council. So long as people and the council continue to believe that the town matches up to other places, things won't change. The same point keeps being made by organisations like WADAC and I hope this painful bid might be the start of a new approach.   

As for your other point, I was politicised in the matter of WBC by its appalling response to the planning scandal, not least its indifference to the threats against townspeople. It struck me then and still does that the council is inward facing and doesn't like light being shone into it, even by the standards of many large organisations. Nothing that has happened since convinces me any different. 

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7 hours ago, grey_man said:

It has been launched and the final bid document is due to the organisers in 11 days. You should see what the other cities are doing with their bids to contrast it to Warrington's. So far that seems to consist of kids in t-shirts by 'the mural' and statements from the council about culture not being about culture. Their message to the organisers seems to be that they've got culture all wrong. So good luck with that. 

This is Coventry's bid website. https://coventry2021.co.uk/

Wow Coventry's 2021 web site is very good and down to earth, having lived there for 3 years it's going to be the top runner. It has it's weaknesses but is showing off it's strengths in the links.

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grey_man    172
3 hours ago, Geoffrey Settle said:

Wow Coventry's 2021 web site is very good and down to earth, having lived there for 3 years it's going to be the top runner. It has it's weaknesses but is showing off it's strengths in the links.

Apart from anything else, they also have a great story to tell. 

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We'll see the councils true position on culture in the town the day after the CoC is awarded elsewhere, we'll hear no more about statues and suchlike, bank on it.

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Togger1    2
10 hours ago, grey_man said:

The council does have the money though. It's just choosing to spend it on itself. I think Warrington is held back by the council in many ways. It is true, I have a real problem with its lack of accountability, openness and its self-absorption. We probably want the same things for the town. I just don't think they'll happen without a serious overhaul of the council's approach. 

There isn't a thriving cultural scene in Warrington for a town of its size. I'm not alone in thinking this. And the local artistic community has to go to another town to perform, which should be an embarrassment to the people at the council. So long as people and the council continue to believe that the town matches up to other places, things won't change. The same point keeps being made by organisations like WADAC and I hope this painful bid might be the start of a new approach.   

As for your other point, I was politicised in the matter of WBC by its appalling response to the planning scandal, not least its indifference to the threats against townspeople. It struck me then and still does that the council is inward facing and doesn't like light being shone into it, even by the standards of many large organisations. Nothing that has happened since convinces me any different. 

the local artistic community does not HAVE to go to another town to perform, perhaps if people like you with you r opinions of WBC poisoning your views are in charge, then perhaps I can see why they choose to.  What  performance that could be staged at the Brindley could not be staged at the ParrHall?

 

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grey_man    172
15 minutes ago, Togger1 said:

the local artistic community does not HAVE to go to another town to perform, perhaps if people like you with you r opinions of WBC poisoning your views are in charge, then perhaps I can see why they choose to.  What  performance that could be staged at the Brindley could not be staged at the ParrHall?

 

The ones that my daughter is appearing in and lots of others that involve people I know, including the producers and directors who would all disagree with you. I'm all for the arts, culture and performance which is why I have a problem with a council that has no interest in them and actively blocks them. If you think the Parr Hall is acceptable as a theatre, you have no idea what you're talking about. WADAC has repeatedly campaigned for venues and cultural assets and has always been knocked back by the council. 

I don't have a poisonous attitude to anything. I just understand from everything I've seen that WBC needs to be embarrassed into doing anything that is not about itself. It is the people of Warrington and their groups that protect the town from the council.  If it wasn't for that simple fact, we'd have no libraries, no Walton Hall (which wasn't even the council's to sell), we wouldn't know about council employees breaking the law and the council would not have been humiliated into doing something about culture by the RSA.

The problem is not people like me, but the complacent. People like you in fact, seeing as you want to make this a personal issue. 

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