Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
asperity

Welcome to the Middle East

Recommended Posts

Certainly in in the context of specific regimes over specific time periods, I would tend to agree. However, " political ideology" is a fairly recent  development in a history where all ideology had a religious base, and in terms of lives lost, you then need to assess the cumulative effect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great, the Romans, the Vandals, Vikings, Goths, Napoleon etc etc etc weren't politically driven? It's all very simplistic to blame religion all the time, when the reality is that many times the idealogues use religion as a cloak.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I partially agree with asperity, some religious Wars were politically driven, The Crusade's come's to mind. But I would say Religion has a lot to answer for when it comes to persecution and the death of millions over the centuries. And the Christian religion is one of the worst when it comes to this.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Scottie, when it comes to mass exterminations, religion, the crusades in particular, is a mere bit player in comparison to communism and fascism, with capitalism running a close third.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A lot of straw clutching going on there Obs :lol: :lol: :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:lol:  :lol: perhaps crucifix clutching! :lol: However, I wouldn't describe the Barbarian invasions of the Roman Empire or the Viking invasion of Britain as generated by "political ideology", they were economically driven for plunder and "a better life", only those days, it was done at the point of a sword! (cue Kije!) :lol: 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
:lol:  :lol: perhaps crucifix clutching! :lol: However, I wouldn't describe the Barbarian invasions of the Roman Empire or the Viking invasion of Britain as generated by "political ideology", they were economically driven for plunder and "a better life", only those days, it was done at the point of a sword! (cue Kije!) :lol: 

But these are more examples of non religious conflicts Obs. So you must be agreeing with me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To a point, but not entirely - just a glance around today's world exposes religion as the catalyst for conflict; hence the so-called "war on terror".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a glance around the world today exposes just ONE religion as a catalyst for conflict, one which laughingly calls itself "the religion of peace". I don't see any reports of Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Buddist, Sikh, Jainist or even Jedi suicide bombers murdering innocent people in the name of an imaginary concept. Don't imagine for one second that this is a war between religions but rather what it is, the war of one religion against the rest of the world.

  • Upvote 2
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sri Lanka , Buddhists killing Tamils,

 

Jews taking land from Muslims

 

Ireland is still putting it's self together

 

Lots of religious indifference and killing of other religions Asp

 

Pakistan and India have had a few wars in recent history.

 

Death and destruction in the name of religion has been around as long as religion and will remain as long as religion, but I do agree with you that a lot of wars that have been fought for so called religious grounds were actually political.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sri Lanka , Buddhists killing Tamils,

 

Jews taking land from Muslims

 

Ireland is still putting it's self together

 

Lots of religious indifference and killing of other religions Asp

 

Pakistan and India have had a few wars in recent history.

 

Death and destruction in the name of religion has been around as long as religion and will remain as long as religion, but I do agree with you that a lot of wars that have been fought for so called religious grounds were actually political.

The Tamils are, themselves, mainly Buddhist.

Jews taking land from Muslims? Very debateable given that the questionable ownership of the land historically.

Ireland has never really been about religion, come on be honest! It's nationalism. Face the truth, if England had remained Catholic Ireland would still have wanted freedom from English tyranny.

Pakistan and India is a more complex problem than can be explained by religion solely from the viewpoint that India has several religious groupings apart from their weird class system. Pakistan of course adheres to "the religion of peace".

 

So Lt Kije are you amongst the majority keeping your head below the parapet and denying that the only religion carrying on religious war is "the religion of peace"? Your god help you then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Christianity has had its religious wars Asp, you have to remember the Muslim religion when compared to other World religions is very young, I think Christianity has killed more people since it's inception than the Muslims, but they are catching up fast.

 

The Tamil Tigers were a Muslim organisation fighting for a Tamil State, they were imported into Sri Lanka by the British to pick tea if my memory serves me right, another legacy left by our Imperial ambitions but I think that for another thread. Even if you believe in the State of Israel, it has now expanded past those borders so is taking Muslim land. Your view on Ireland is pure speculation and though I find your point interesting it remains just that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ulster: two sectarian groups who regularly provoke each other with anachronistic parades. Burma: Budists killing  minority Muslims. Israel: Fanatical Zionists, who actually believe the (Arab) land was bequeathed to them by God. Syria & Iraq: Sunnis v Shias. Egypt: Extreme Islamists v Coptic Christians.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

throw I find your point ingesting

 

????

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But you are both ignoring the fact that, although religious differences have contributed to the murder of countless millions of people, they are far outnumbered by the idealistic politicians who have often used religious differences as a cover for their murderous intentions.

 

Quite why you both are trying to cover up the Islamist desire to kill everyone who doesn't bow down to their will is quite beyond me. In fact no-one seems willing to even comment on it. Why is that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ulster: two sectarian groups who regularly provoke each other with anachronistic parades. Burma: Budists killing  minority Muslims. Israel: Fanatical Zionists, who actually believe the (Arab) land was bequeathed to them by God. Syria & Iraq: Sunnis v Shias. Egypt: Extreme Islamists v Coptic Christians.

You are so ignorant of reality it really amazes me. Israel - If Israel had been formed by atheists the "religion of peace" would be trying to wipe them out. Syria and Iraq - two forms of the same "religion of peace" trying to wipe each other out. Egypt - the "religion of peace" trying to wipe out the Christians. Burma I think is a civil war, though I may be mistaken. The point is that in the overall picture these are minor disagreements when compared to the mass murder committed by political idealists.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The Tamil Tigers were a Muslim organisation fighting for a Tamil State

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2070817.stm

 

It's not often that you're right, but you're wrong again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Christianity has had its religious wars Asp, you have to remember the Muslim religion when compared to other World religions is very young, I think Christianity has killed more people since it's inception than the Muslims, but they are catching up fast.

 

 

Christianity is 2000 years old and Islam 1400. Not that much difference I would say (Islam very young?). I hope you enjoy Sharia Law Lt Kije.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quite why you both are trying to cover up the Islamist desire to kill everyone who doesn't bow down to their will is quite beyond me. In fact no-one seems willing to even comment on it. Why is that?

 

If your Avatar had to be your own picture, would one or both be wearing a burka?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You might find this useful Asp.

 

 

http://www.bandoli.no/warfare.htm

 

More people have died by persecution or War started by the Christians than have died by Muslims, as I said the Muslims are catching up fast. I have no axe to grind as I am an atheist, I have no time for either religion but I do find it amazing that Christians deny their own history, Christianity has been one of the bloodiest religions, it is only in its recent history that it has got a grip on its violence, and in that the Muslims could learn from the Christians. The Muslim civil war Shia killing Sunni, is similar to Catholics and Protestants in Europe, the 30 year War springs to mind, and as we both know there are still hot spots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again I'm not denying that religion has been the cause of wars, death and destruction. But I am arguing that even that pales into insignificance when compared to the millions who have died because of politics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If your Avatar had to be your own picture, would one or both be wearing a burka?

Eagle, I don't suppose you would care to translate that for me. It doesn't make much sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Again I'm not denying that religion has been the cause of wars, death and destruction. But I am arguing that even that pales into insignificance when compared to the millions who have died because of politics.

 

I am not saying your wrong, the trouble is politicians are very good a dressing things up, and many wars that have been fought for political reasons have been dressed up as other reasons some of which were religious.

 

The recent history of the Muslim religion is terrible !!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...