algy Posted April 4, 2013 Report Share Posted April 4, 2013 Market Gate about 1900, looking down Buttermarket street, Bridge Street to the right. The 'Gate' was only a small crossroads at the crest of the hill prior to the new 'Circus' being built. The Fox and the Crown & Sceptre advertising 'Greenall's Ales & Stout on its gable end can be seen on the right hand side of Buttermarket Street. c1870. The Fox looking to be in need of repair with the old Crown & Sceptre adjoining. C 1890. The Fox as a public house, the roof has been renewed. The Fox no longer a licensed premises, now being used as shops. The new Crown & Sceptre is next door. Looking down a narrow Buttermarket street, Crown & Sceptre right, the Pelican on the left. The Pelican with the Landlord looking very serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demelzadoe Posted April 4, 2013 Report Share Posted April 4, 2013 These streets are so narrow. I can't get my head around it. I have the Lower Seven Stars, which I can't seem to re-post, early 1800s when my ancestor was victualer, looked so different than the later photos. I WANT A TIME MACHINE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted April 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2013 Demel, heres a photo of the 'Lower seven Stars' in Bridge Street on the same side and close to the Royal Oak. click on the photo to enlarge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demelzadoe Posted April 4, 2013 Report Share Posted April 4, 2013 I've got an earlier photo Algy. It didn't have the huge 'Seven Stars' sign. I was able to post it on Warrington Memories, but I can't work out how to get it on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted April 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 I've got an earlier photo Algy. It didn't have the huge 'Seven Stars' sign. I was able to post it on Warrington Memories, but I can't work out how to get it on here. Have you got a photobucket account, if so I can explain how to link it from there to here or I can PM you with my email address and you can send it as an attachment and i will upload it for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracey Bennett Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 I think this is the one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demelzadoe Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 It would probably be easier if I e-mailed the photo to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demelzadoe Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 Oh, you've got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demelzadoe Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 Yes, and I am still convinced that the two people on the right are Richard Box and his son Thomas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracey Bennett Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 I'm trying to figure out what the figure on the left (not the shirt sleeves one) is doing. At first I thought he had a couple of walking sticks but there's something on the floor. I guess he's brushing up the poo but he's standing quite awkwardly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demelzadoe Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 I thought that they were doing some sort of street repairs but now that you have said that I'm having a closer look. There seems to be an opening in the pathway, maybe a delivery hatch into a cellar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracey Bennett Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 Could be. I think there's a similar looking hole infront of the neighbouring building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 I think this is the one. I think they could be digging the footpath up , looks like the bloke on the left has a shovel & pick near him which are leaning on the perimeter of the hole while his photo is being taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted April 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 Here is the rear of the Lower Seven Stars the building closest is an out building probably part of the stabling business that it was well known for, the two chimney stacks to the left are the ones on the roof of the actual pub are the ones in your original photo. This photo was taken prior to demolition around 1910 and would eventually become the Royal Oak Yard, I have edited the text on my first photo as I had said it was close to the Royal Oak which in fact was built on this site. I must apologies, I have unintentionally mislead you, the description on this photo stated that "This photo was taken of the Seven Stars Yard prior to demolition around 1910 and would eventually become the Royal Oak Yard". The Royal Oak had been on the same site in Bridge Street for many years, the photo title was not correct. that'll teach me to check my facts before uploading photos. Both the Seven Stars and the Royal Oak are both in the 1818 town directory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demelzadoe Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 And Boots Chemist across the road, I suppose standing on the site of the Roebuck. Was this taken about the same time as the front of the building Algy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracey Bennett Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 I think they could be digging the footpath up , looks like the bloke on the left has a shovel & pick near him which are leaning on the perimeter of the hole while his photo is being taken. It does look like the end of his spade is disappearing into the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted April 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 Boots was a few buildings further down than the Roebuck, I would think the photo of yours was taken much earlier than mine demel. I have corrected the text to the photo of the Seven Stars Yard as I got it completely wrong, the following I have copied and pasted from my photo postand it will explain it. I must apologies, I have unintentionally mislead you, the description on this photo stated that "This photo was taken of the Seven Stars Yard prior to demolition around 1910 and would eventually become the Royal Oak Yard". The Royal Oak had been on the same site in Bridge Street for many years, the photo title was not correct. that'll teach me to check my facts before uploading photos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demelzadoe Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 Soooo totally lost now. I was told that the Seven Stars was The Packet House. Couldn't get my bearings, it didn't appear to be on the corner of Bridge and Mersey. Being on the original Royal Oak site, I could see. The side entrance I can visualize. Now, from your map, it is way down from Mersey Street, in fact, it's in the same location as I remember the Seven Stars being in Bridge Street in the 60s/70s when unfortunately it had the name of being a 'dive of a place' I'm just going to ask you to meet me in Bridge Street sometime August/September 2014 and point it out for me. Second look, No, Mersey Street isn't where it should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracey Bennett Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 As far as I know the Packet House has always been the Packet House. Did you notice on Algy's map that there are 2 Seven Stars? Upper and Lower, not sure which one survived to the 60/70s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted April 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 Demel, Mersey street was in the same place the as it is now, you are looking at a map of 1851, that has the old Victoria bridge over the river, the Packet House is on the corner, it's first name was the "Manchester Packet House" as that is where you could buy your ticket to travel to Manchester on the river canal packet, the name was shortened later to the "Old Packet House" then the "Packet House". There were buildings on the other side of Mersey street and edging up to the town end of the bridge. The large building on the corner of the bridge housed two shops No.141 was a Grocers owned by John Burgess and No.143 was Summers Bros. Bootmakers. the "Packet House" can just be seen on opposite side of Mersey street. Notice the amount of smoke polution from the factory chimneys hanging over Howley due to the still air, there is not a ripple on the river. This 1900 picture I know of that shows both the Higher and Lower Seven Stars together. Bridge street appears to be photographed mainly from the Market Gate end of the street. The Higher Seven Stars has the fancy ballustrade around the edge of the roof, the small building to the right coming down the street was the "Bulls Head". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracey Bennett Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 I'm just sending myself dizzy trying to match that photo to the modern Bridge St. Am I right in thinking the Higher Seven Stars building still exists and now (according to Street View anyway) houses eivissa? Which would mean the Lower Seven Stars disappeared under the fancy stone Victorian building next door which I remember as being the Royal Oak? The present buildings down towards the Packet House look very similar in architectural style to the buildings either side of the lower Seven Stars in the 1900 picture. Can't believe these buildings were described as having 'no architectural significance', that makes me fearful for the future of Bridge St. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted April 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 Tracey heres a later map of 1895 hopefully it will give you a better understanding of their location. The spaces on the opposite side of Bridge street are where the old buildings have been demolished to make way for widening of the street. The Higher Seven Stars as it is today, I suppose the name may have changed yet again since this photo was taken. The building is relatively unchanged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted April 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 Tracey I had become as confused as you said you were, but I think (hopefully) this is the final piece in the 'jigsaw'. I believe that the Bulls Head, Seven Stars and the OLD Royal Oak along with the other old properties were pulled down about 1912 and a new Royal Oak incorporating three new shops at the north end of the building, one of the original buildings along with the others down to the Packet House remain today. The lower Seven Stars would have been about where the doorway is of the Royal Oak. The Higher Seven Stars is the building still standing today in 2013. The small apex shown in this photo has been removed from over the middle top window of the building that remains to this day - 2013. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
demelzadoe Posted April 6, 2013 Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 Thanks for doing this Algy. Now I really do know where I will be looking when I come to Warrington. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted April 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2013 Glad we got there in the end!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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