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AdrianR
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The gauge all over Europe is the same, standard gauge

Yes, I stand corrected, nearly all the European lines, including the high speed ones, do use the same gauge as the UK.

It turns out I was quoting 'structural gauge', the space required between platforms, under bridges and beneath cables and overhead gantries etc.

Since the European high speed trains and carriages are wider and taller they'd hit everything in sight if the new lines weren't built to suit their profile, this wouldn't hamper freight traffic using standard stock, though standard sized passenger carriages would presumably leave one heck of a gap to the platforms...    

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Nobody knows just how we all live / work / play in 20 years time. I've never seen the point of a long commute to sit at a computer terminal when such things could easily be achieved from home. It won't be here for 20 years at the earliest and could already be out of date years before it's complete. The only goods traffic on rail which would be viable is bulk freight. Ever seen a goods train delivering to your local Asda ? There's already high speed links between these cities which is called an aeroplane...This is just a vanity project, a rich mans plaything.

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I worked for a well known High Street name that tried rail freight to Glasgow for 12 months...they gave up on it in the end. The containers had to be in Warrington ,at the railhead, for a certain time ,the cost was dearer than going by road, & to preserve spaces on the train they had to pay many a time for empty containers to travel. When you consider the messing about with time spent shunting a container through town & being held up at the railhead, the same driver could be well on his way to Scotland  with a door to door delivery.

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Freight trains only take HGV's off motorways...Trucks are still required to take the goods to railheads and then another truck to take them away from their destination railhead...Most freight is moved at night via motorways so even if there is a great shift to rail it will make little difference locally.*get goods onto rail* is a fine sentiment but that's all it is.

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Could have replaced or upgraded the ENTIRE motorway network for that money!

 

And motorways at least have the advantage that they actually take people from where they are to where they want to go.

 

A journey time of 2 hours from central Manchester to central London is all well and good - but only if you happen to be starting in central Manchester and only want to get to central London. In the real world, the people who would use this actually want to get from diverse locations somewhere outside Manchester to any number of places somewhere in the South East generally. The journey into Manchester (at times dictated by the rail timetable) the journey out of central London, and the same again in reverse (again at times dictated by the timetable) will mean that a decent road and motorway network which delivers people directly from start point to destination at a time of their choosing will always be both quicker and cheaper.

 

1 hour 8 mins from Manchester to London - given road congestion in the capital, I can't see how point-to-point to any destination in London is likely to be quicker by road, and the offpeak train return at £72 is probably about the same as return car costs for fuel and tyre wear (plus you can't do much else while driving).

Even the quoted journey times are a con.

 

They assume a non-stop train all the way from Manchester to London - but they have also announced that there will be stations at Manchester Airport, Crewe, and Birmingham. So at least 15 minutes slowing down, stopped, and speeding up again for each station stop, and there's 3/4 of the time saved by the higher top speed gone right there.

 

Same on the eastern leg from Leeds - stops at Sheffield Meadowhall, Totton for Derby and Nottingham, and then Birmingham.

No station at Crewe, and trains from the north-west need not call at Birmingham.

 

Glasgow-London trains can get onto HS2 tracks after Wigan, missing out Warrington, but the plan is for Glasgow-London trains not to call after Preston. There'd be a separate Preston-London service calling at Wigan & Warrington & Crewe then joining HS2 (so about 1 hr 30 from Warrington to Euston). Steven Broomhead has suggested converting the existing main line through Warrington for HS2 - I can't see that happening (converting probably dearer than new build, and disruption while it's being done). Not building the HS2 section from near Knutsford to Wigan (via Culcheth) - so that Glasgow trains still came through Warrington - would save a chunk of money but (with Wigan and Warrington stops) would add maybe 20 minutes to the Glasgow/Preston-London time.

 

The Glasgow-Birmingham service would miss out Warrington (straight onto HS2 at Wigan). They seem to be suggesting that alternate Liverpool trains would join HS2 after a stop at Crewe or at Stafford. As we also look set to lose the Leeds service from Central when the Liverpool-Manchester route via Newton-le-Willows is electrified, we could lose direct services to several places.

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Bypasses Warrington to the east skirting the back of lymm, hollins green, glazebrook and Culceth. No station in Warrington although we will be able to pick it up south of Crewe.

 

A white elephant? No great loss to Warrington?

If the underlying intention is to improve the lot of us Northeners , why not first start linking the northern cities, which are closest,  and leaving the London link till last ?

 

Various pundits and citizens on camera seem to be only interested in how fast it will enable them to complete the journey to London. One guy in Crewe said it would make commuting to London a feasible option.

 

According to surveys on the continent, the idea that  the economic benefits of  high speed trains are spread around the regions has not been shown to be so. The main beneficiaies have been the major terminal cities.

 

It seems that every new government we get has to get a vanity project, labour's was the NHS super computer, which was a cock up.  So I think it is indeed a white elephant, about as relevant as gay marriage ! 

 

For my £1,000 I'd much prefer a couple of air-craft carriers and an army to match.

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Totally agree with you Boris. If the government is going to waste my taxpound I want them to waste it on something tangible.

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Does it matter that you will be able to get to london from here or this area in under two hours by train. I have been to london once in my life and been through london four times. At this moment in time i cannot foresee me having to go to or through london any time soon.

 

If they were more worried about freight lines then why not make a special goods only motorway for all the container trucks and have terminals at each end. then link them up like australian road trains to get them from one to the other. Once there they can be then moved individually by normal roads to their final destination. would take two lorries per load off the long haul routes and mean that most drivers would only have to be doing local runs.

would free up the motorways a bit as well as the railways as they could then be dedicated to passenger trains only and the motorways to cars and white vans 8)

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  • 11 months later...

"Since 2008, and in the time Britain has taken only to debate the merits of one line - HS2 - which would be just over 100 miles long, China has built 6,000 miles of track, much of it elevated, and invested in 1,000 high-speed trains".

 

The Chinese network is currently almost double the combined length of Europe and Japan's railway networks.

 

We have to contend with whinging councils; moaning that they don't have a station and some bloke in Watford; complaining that his house will be devalued of course, no wonder the costs spiral out of control

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