observer Posted January 14, 2013 Report Share Posted January 14, 2013 Quote anyone when they make sense, don't recall quoting you though Kije! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted January 14, 2013 Report Share Posted January 14, 2013 Your not enlightened enough to quote me???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
safeway60 Posted January 14, 2013 Report Share Posted January 14, 2013 In religious terms 620AD was just yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted January 14, 2013 Report Share Posted January 14, 2013 Islam began circa 620AD when Allah through the Angel Gabriel spoke to the prophet Muhammad revealing to him the verses now written in the Qur'an.. Is that the same Angel Gabriel who is said to have come down with a message from God and spoke to Mary telling her she was pregnant with Jesus ? Was he a freelance Angel ? How come this Angel Gabriel seemed to be passing on the words and messages of different gods as he is also mentioned in the Mormon and Judaism faiths etc too or was he spreading the word of ONE god and then people decided to go their own ways with it and interpret it all how they 'thought' or 'wanted' it to be interpreted thus creating different religions along the way (and a lot of conflict too). I guess we will never know I suppose. No offence meant to any religion or to anyone by the way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted January 14, 2013 Report Share Posted January 14, 2013 Different religions always pinch bits from the religion they are replacing, Christ was born in June, they celebrate his birth in December as it was a very big pagan festival, the winter solstice, which was calibrated round the 25th of December. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted January 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2013 The day that Mary was told that she would have a very special baby, Jesus (called the Annunciation) was on March 25th - and it's still celebrated today on the 25th March. Nine months after the 25th March is the 25th December! March 25th was also the day some early Christians thought the world had been made, and also the day that Jesus died on when he was an adult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted January 14, 2013 Report Share Posted January 14, 2013 So does that mean it was the 'same' Angel Gabriel then. It's starting to bug me now PS... you say different religions always 'pinch bits from the religion they are replacing' Lt K. Isn't stealing a crime in most religions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted January 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2013 We'll just have to chop Lt 's hands off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted January 14, 2013 Report Share Posted January 14, 2013 Oooh that's a bit harsh Wolfie. What on earth would he use to type all his posts on here ... infact best not answer that (that goes for you too Lt as we don't need to what strange 'skills' or other 'god like' powers you have hidden away to ensure you can spread you own words to your believers and non beleivers even without hands. OMG why have I got the giggles now and can someone please remove the images from my head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted January 14, 2013 Report Share Posted January 14, 2013 The message that the early christians took to ancient Rome, was the concept of an after-life; which to a population of Slaves and Plebs living a fairly miserable existence, would appear rather attractive - and has appeared similarly attractive to generations of ignorant peasants. In the middle ages, a German priest even sold passports to heaven! The best defence against such nonesense is a secular education based on scientific enquiry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted January 14, 2013 Report Share Posted January 14, 2013 Paganism in the case of Europe Dizzy, Found this might help Jesus was most probably born 2010 years ago. However, the date of 25th December is not right. There has been manupulation of the months and days to get the current Gregorian Calendar. It seems to me the most accurate and detailed account of Jesus's birth is in the Qura'n. The story in it says that Mary (Mariam) was advised to try dropping fresh dates from a date palm tree near her to eat and that a spring began flowing in the place for her to drink. Fresh dates on the palm tree are only present between July and September. When Mary made sure she was pregnant she went eastwards from her family towards Jordan valley, which is warm and in which date palm trees grow. Their are more Christian festivals that have their roots in paganism. The catholic church have always played about with dates and festivels, The new Testement was put together in about 397, very interesting more for the writings (gospals) that did not make it into the book. Have alook at a book called Lost Scriptures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 Is that the same Angel Gabriel who is said to have come down with a message from God and spoke to Mary telling her she was pregnant with Jesus ? Was he a freelance Angel ? How come this Angel Gabriel seemed to be passing on the words and messages of different gods as he is also mentioned in the Mormon and Judaism faiths etc too or was he spreading the word of ONE god and then people decided to go their own ways with it and interpret it all how they 'thought' or 'wanted' it to be interpreted thus creating different religions along the way (and a lot of conflict too). I guess we will never know I suppose. No offence meant to any religion or to anyone by the way You know what Dizzy, different religions do not worship differenet gods. They all worship the same God but just call him by different names. Jehova, Yayweh or Allah, all the same God. And Gabriel the Arch Angel was the messenger of God thus he brought the messages from God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 Different religions always pinch bits from the religion they are replacing, Christ was born in June, they celebrate his birth in December as it was a very big pagan festival, the winter solstice, which was calibrated round the 25th of December. Quite correct but I do believe the Nazareen Jesus ben Joseph was born in September. I recall that whilst still at school our religous edcucation teacher - a Mrs Johnson - nearing Christmas told us to write an essay on the nativity. While all the the rest of the class followed the lines of the accepted nativity story, I myself tackled it from a different angle and stated that Christmas day should be celebrated in September because scientists have proved that was when Jesus ben Josheph was born and one of the reasons I gave was that September was the winter time in Bethlehem and was when it snowed. I also wrote that the Romans chose December 25th as Christmas day because it would be easier to get the brits to accept it as it was the winter solstice. At that time in pagan Britain when winter stocks were getting low people would exchange certain foods they had in excess with friends/neighbours for foods they had little or none left. Giving rise to the tradition of exchanging gifts at Christmas. The following week at the commence of lesson, said Mrs Johnson was handing out the excercise books and threw mine down on my desk and told me, "That is not true! Jesus was born on 25th December not in September and it never snows in Bethlehem. The weather is too hot for it to snow." Whilst watching tv some years ago there was a report on concerning the area of Bethlehem/Jerusalem. Forget what the subject was but lo and behold while the reporter was on air snow began to fall. Couldn't help wondering if Mrs Johnson was still alive to see it. Some 20 years ago while working in my shop I was listening to a programme - the subject being the proper time to celebrate Christmas and it was like listening to my essay being read out - word for word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 You know what Dizzy, different religions do not worship differenet gods. They all worship the same God but just call him by different names. Jehova, Yayweh or Allah, all the same God. And Gabriel the Arch Angel was the messenger of God thus he brought the messages from God. OK but if they are all worshiping the same God how come different religions say different things and how come some are even in conflict with each other and killing because of what they believe and what others maybe don't if all the messages came from the same source. Strange old world at times eh ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 It's all down to different interpretations. Always has been, always will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 I agree with your last post Cleo, sadly the Christian nations have not got a good track record when it comes to other religious interpretations, and have slaughtered people because of it. Their is more blood on Christian hands than any other religion when it comes to religious war and slaughter. As to the month of the birth, I stand corrected, I new it was not in December, It was a long time ago when I read about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 Kije - they slaughtered people cos they were of a different religion or sect (called them hetetics), usually cos it suited their political or economic motives, cloaked by primitive religious bigotry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted January 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 The year of Jesus birth was determined by Dionysius Exiguus, a Scythian monk, “abbot of a Roman monastery. His calculation went as follows: a. In the Roman, pre-Christian era, years were counted from ab urbe condita (“the founding of the City” [Rome]). Thus 1 AUC signifies the year Rome was founded, 5 AUC signifies the 5th year of Rome’s reign, etc. b. Dionysius received a tradition that the Roman emperor Augustus reigned 43 years, and was followed by the emperor Tiberius. c. Luke 3:1,23 indicates that when Jesus turned 30 years old, it was the 15th year of Tiberius reign. d. If Jesus was 30 years old in Tiberius’ reign, then he lived 15 years under Augustus (placing Jesus birth in Augustus’ 28th year of reign). e. Augustus took power in 727 AUC. Therefore, Dionysius put Jesus birth in 754 AUC. f. However, Luke 1:5 places Jesus’ birth in the days of Herod, and Herod died in 750 AUC – four years before the year in which Dionysius places Jesus birth. In other words, it's all a myth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 So, are you saying that the nazarene did not exist? Then how the hell did archiologists recently discover his tomb and found a sarcophagus with his name on it next to that of another with Mary Magdoline's name on it? An elaborate ruse maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted January 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 So, are you saying that the nazarene did not exist? Don't recall saying that ?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 But you implied it by saying it's all a myth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted January 15, 2013 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 The intention of labeling something important a myth is to build excitement so that when the legend is proved true a while later it brings a sense of wonder or discovery. I'm just waiting for a while later when and if it is proven to be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 Hum..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 Cleo, it is a claim only about the grave, it has not been proven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted January 15, 2013 Report Share Posted January 15, 2013 Not a claim only. I saw it with mine own eyes and saw the names. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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