Fuel bills

[Lt Kije]

Bill

 

I get your point, put that cost against the cost of storing nuclear waste.

 

We have power stations near conurbations because of the cost in moving energy, it is not an efficient use of the energy moving it distance, I find it unbelievable that the National Grid find a 7.4% loss acceptable over are current grid. The losses go up over distance.

 

So when will it become economically viable in the UK to start moving electricity over distance the answer is never!!!, not when Nuclear is an option. Hydro is not really an option in England, Tidal is only an option in Bristol. Wave is not an option at an Industrail level anywhere at the moment. The French had a tidal barrier operating and have switched it off as the environmental cost was high. They found the brackish water round the tidal zone became fresh water, killing the wild life that lived in that zone ( birds ect). We have a National Grid that was designed in the 60s. What would the cost be to bring it up to date to cut the losses (7.4%) Then put that cost up against Nuclear. And as a customer would you be willing to pay?

[Evil Sid]

considering all the flooding we have had recently, maybe water wheels attach to generators may be of help.

[Lt Kije]

If only we could turn falling rain into energy

[asperity]

Well thank you for the education into electricity transmission Lt Kije. I must admit I never knew about this. Isn't Wikepedia wonderful?

[Lt Kije]

The problem I had Asp, was how to explain, Wikepedia is not perfect, but to be fair it did a better job than I could have done.

[asperity]

Fair comment. As I said I never heard of this but it's obviously well tried technology.

[Bill]

For a fleeting moment there I thought you really had seen my point but maybe not. 

 

 

 

Bill

[observer]

Well, energy bills have shot up this quarter, and are due to keep rising, as our old coal power stations go off line and the slack is having to be made with imports.  So all the past dilly dallying by polititicians and attempts to "go green", will now be costing us a fortune.

[middlec]

I tried to get a pic of mine of an offshore wind farm to add to this thread, but links from Photobucket still don't work for me, even after Dizzy spent much time and effort to explain other ways to get it to work! So I give up and will go and lie down in a dark place......

[Dizzy]

Email me your pic Middlec and I'll add it to your post for you .... or better still try to add it yourself and leave it on here  even if it doesn't work and I'll look at your post code and tell you where you have gone wrong.   

 

Of course you could just use firefox (PS you can have both on your pc by the way and just keep IE8 as your default )

 

Back to where you were............

[boris1066]

Well, energy bills have shot up this quarter, and are due to keep rising, as our old coal power stations go off line and the slack is having to be made with imports.  So all the past dilly dallying by polititicians and attempts to "go green", will now be costing us a fortune.

It makes you wonder why the government is planning to throw £32 billion at a railway line when there are much more important matters that would benefit. 

[asperity]

A vanity project that they think will make them look good and, if it fails will do so long after they have secured their gold plated jobs with the EUSSR. Plus it's only the plebs money so spend away!

[Lt Kije]

they are building new power stations, but for the short to medium term we will be importing electricity, I hope people dont think its a new thing we have been importing it for years.

[middlec]

 

Thanks Diz, it now appears to work!

I know, this is a rather boring image, it's one I took in November of the offshore windfarm near the coast of Hull. They are adding to the numbers all around our coast, and shipping companies are none too pleased. These things are becoming a navigational hazard. And, as already discussed, are they the way forward for cheaper efficient fuel?

[observer]

The "new thing" is Kije, that the gas we're importing from the Gulf, is also being bought by the Chinese; which tends to put the price up.

[asperity]

Which windfarm is it MC? Technically Hull hasn't got a coast as it's a river 30 odd miles up the Humber, but there are several windfarms in the North Sea in the area off the Lincolnshire and Norfolk coasts (Sheringham and Skegness), in the Wash and a new one under construction just north of the Spurn at the mouth of the Humber. The port of Hull is now a base for the storage of wind generator components, and Grimsby is a base for transport craft taking construction workers to and from the windfarms. There is an enormous amount of money being invested in the construction of these things and ultimately we are paying the price in our increased power bills and, in the not too distant future, in power cuts.

[Lt Kije]

Chinese are buying gas from the Russians as well Obs, as we do

[observer]

Exactly; that's why it's costing us more - prices will continue to go up, cos we're dependent on external supplies now.

[asperity]

Drill baby, drill!! Get frakking asap!

[observer]

  Won't argue with that; problem is, some folk (groups) have, and the dithering politicians have fudged making decisions to the point, where we now have an energy gap.

[Bazj]

We are having to close power stations because of some EU directive apparently..... why not tell them to shove their directive and we will close them when the new ones are available to take over?

 

Paying to import energy when we can still generate our own but aren't allowed to because of a bunch of unelected  ***** in Europe is too much

[Lt Kije]

We are shutting Power Stations as they are no longer efficient or economically viable, We should have been building power stations years ago to replace are old stock, we did not, We choose to privatise them in the hope the private sector would pay. They did not and choose instead to run them into the ground. When a Power Station is built they are given an optional life, All of are large Power Stations are over their operational lives, The cost of keeping them running versus the cost of what they produce.

 

 In the case of Nuclear it is very rare that all of them are contributing to the grid all at once, they are continually braking down and can be off line for 6 to 8 months at a time, and idle nuclear power station costs millions, not just in staff ect, but they have to buy power off the grid to work the pumps for reactor cooling ect.

[Bazj]

I would disagree.... sometimes you need to be self sufficient because you can guarantee that if we shut down power stations to rely on foreign power, that self same foreign power will suddenly jump to extortinate rates just after the last station is turned off.....at least if we have our own; although they maybe more expensive at the moment, in the long term they will be cheaper until the new stations are built....

[Lt Kije]

Baz

 

I agree we should be self sufficient in energy, the problem has and is lack of investment. We should have been renewing are power stations, 20 odd years ago. The government did not, they choose to privatise them in the hope the private sector would pay for the new ones. They did not, they choose to keep are old inefficient ones running. Well they have reached the point where they are getting to old.

 

The blame lies squarely with are governments over the last 30 years who don't like to think to far in advance as they might not be in power. The UK needs along term energy plan and that plan should be one step away from politics.

[observer]

Nice to see your Damascan conversion on nuclear  Kije, with the last para in your previous (but one) post!    Your right about one thing: yes we do need a long term energy plan implimenting in a short space of time - a) to make us energy self sufficient, to get our unemployed (especially the young) into meaningfull employment, and c) ensure that the projects give more bang for our buck, by resolving issues such as extreme flooding and transport links. This is THE  challenge for today's generation; problem is, unlike our father's generation in 1939-45, we don't have a Churchill to lead it.