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Origin of the name the six-penny


Bill
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Question from Mrs Green who never comes on here but often has a read.

 

She wants to know if anyone knows the origins of the name "six-penny" the alleyway that runs at the side of of what was Rylands. It's still there according to her and the new estate that's been built is also called six-penny fields.

 

Bill :)

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Thanks Cleo, I thought that probably would have be the case but there was never any toll as far back as I can remember so I was thinking that even further back in time, six pence would have made it quite expensive. So does anyone know when the sixpence charge was in place, was it manned 24/7 and who collected the money?

 

Bill

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Thanks Cleo, I thought that probably would have be the case but there was never any toll as far back as I can remember so I was thinking that even further back in time, six pence would have made it quite expensive. So does anyone know when the sixpence charge was in place, was it manned 24/7 and who collected the money?

 

Bill

Sorry Bill Can't find that fact out!. There are three old maps, 1850 shows a pathway that became part of the six-penny in the vicinity, the 1894 and 1928 show the complete alleyway.

 

1850.jpg

 

1894.jpg

 

1928.jpg

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Thanks for that Algy, you may have unwittingly come up with the answer with your maps. That particular area appeared to have a history of making ropes for sailing ships and if you look on the first and second map you’ll notice there’s quite a few buildings listed as rope walks. A quick Google describes these as long covered walkways where the ropes were laid out prior to being twisted into ropes.

 

So that sorted the walk part of things and a bit of further investigation points to the cost of a bundle of locally grown hemp (used at that time for ropes) as costing sixpence. I’m making a few guesses here but taking on board both of the above facts and bearing in mind that one of the original rope walks was almost in line with the sixpenny walk, I think this may be the answer.

 

THOMAS CROFTS, Violent Theft > highway robbery, 19th February 1772.

Q. What place is this rope-walk? is it a thoroughfare?

Gates. Yes. I ran after them, and called out, Stop thief!

 

It was called the sixpenny walk back in 1894 so I think that disproves any toll theory because that would be just too much to pay back then for a minor shortcut.

 

Bill :)

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I haven't got an answer Bill but the old tithe maps (1839-51) show a field there which was called 'Sixpenny Field' which appears to have a path or track at the left edge of it. So maybe it led somewhere and carts etc used it and did have to pay a toll to the land owner John Ireland Blackburne or the occupier James Welsby in the early/mid 1800's or maybe even before that.

 

PS before anyone pulls me up my spelling or the naughtly 'word' yes the top field was actually called 'Piss Field' :oops::lol:

 

see here

 

sixpennyfieldDaltoncopy.jpg

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I think my theory still hold good on this one because if the area had several rope works and they used locally grown hemp, the field marked sixpenny field quite probably was used to grow hemp which for quite a long period of time cost sixpence per pound. I still find it hard to accept that this was any kind of toll given the length of the path, the cost and the fact it didn’t go anywhere back in those days.

 

Tracey. The alleyway is still there according to my wife and the quote was from some trial at the time that came up while Googling rope walk.

 

Bill :)

 

BTW it’s quite interesting to see that Botler Grammer School was originally located at the side of the sixpenny. I didn’t know that!

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Is the alleyway still there then? I only ever walked down there once or twice and it freaked me right out. I wonder if (being polite) urine was used in ropemaking?

 

R

Tracey, Human urine contains a substance called urea which decomposes to form ammonia. It was used throughout the textile industry – from cleaning the raw wool to acting as a mordant for the finished cloth. It was therefore a hugely valuable commodity.

 

Lant, as it was known, was collected locally from pots people left on their doorsteps and collecting places in the streets. Lant troughs can still be seen in the hills around Calderdale. Titus Salt installed indoor toilets at Salts Mill in Bradford with separate cubicles for redheads and Methodists – their's was considered to be of better quality – the Methodists as there would be no alcohol in it and redheads from some obscure reason not known to us. Is it possible it was used in the making of hemp rope?.

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BTW it’s quite interesting to see that Botler Grammer School was originally located at the side of the sixpenny. I didn’t know that!

 

Seems the sixpenny field site (or perhaps the part below the map I uploaded which is not shown due to town boundaries) was once home to a school for years Bill dating back to post medieval times.

 

See here.. although as usual with local archealogical things there is nothing of substance availabe to read for us mortals and just a mention :roll:

 

http://www.biab.ac.uk/issues/48006

 

Maybe there is more available somewhere that patience will unearth :blink:

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Algy/Tracey re your reference to 'urine'... that just reminded that urine was used in the tannery process in the early years. Now from my ancestry family research I have may tanners dating back to 1841 NO SARKY COMMENTS PLEASE :lol:

 

Could the reference to the 'Piss Field' :oops: located a few fields to the right of 'sixpenny field' on the old tithe map have any relevance as directly above that and across the land owned by the Cheshire Lines Commitee is a TANNERY.

 

Maybe 'sixpenny' was an allowed route to the tannery (with a toll payment) before the railway line was built and cutting it off Bill.

 

Saying that I have no idea when the railway line was built so I'm probably waffling as usual but I dont think so :lol::oops:

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I think my theory still hold good on this one because if the area had several rope works and they used locally grown hemp, the field marked sixpenny field quite probably was used to grow hemp which for quite a long period of time cost sixpence per pound. I still find it hard to accept that this was any kind of toll given the length of the path, the cost and the fact it didn’t go anywhere back in those days.

 

Tracey. The alleyway is still there according to my wife and the quote was from some trial at the time that came up while Googling rope walk.

 

Bill :)

 

BTW it’s quite interesting to see that Botler Grammer School was originally located at the side of the sixpenny. I didn’t know that!

 

The old grammer school which opened onto Dalton Bank and in latter years was used as a highway/street cleaning depot by WBC. I beleive it was demolished in recent years?

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That area where the old grammar school cum WBC depot was situated is what is called School Brow.

Slightly off topic, but the same area.

 

In the edition of WARRINGTON GUARDIAN dated 6th December, in the Public Notices section there is an announcement saying that the Warrington Borough Education Department intends closing the Sir Thomas Boteler Community High School (formerly Boteler Grammar School) with effect from 31st August 2002. Tony (Azzer) Hayes. The School is now known as Sir Thomas Boteler Church of England High School as from 1st September 2002. John D. Gatley (Secretary Old Boys) Demolition of Old Boteler Grammar School, School Brow By Warrington BC. Site dates from 1526. Part of 1863 present building incorporates old masters house and many artefacts e.g. foundations stones, memorials and shields. Objections to be submitted by Friday 31st October 2003. Contact Secretary.

 

I'm not sure of the legality of what I' about to print, but in my mind, after reading the following page the name Grammar School should never have been altered to High School, the use of the school could have been modified, but the name should have been retained. it would be interesting to know how many people objected.

 

This link will be of interest to some old pupils.

http://www.friendsreunited.co.uk/boteler-grammar-school/b/cd844bc5-65a2-4111-b161-359e3e9e0fa1

 

FreeGrammarSchool.jpg

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R

Tracey, Human urine contains a substance called urea which decomposes to form ammonia. It was used throughout the textile industry – from cleaning the raw wool to acting as a mordant for the finished cloth. It was therefore a hugely valuable commodity.

 

Lant, as it was known, was collected locally from pots people left on their doorsteps and collecting places in the streets. Lant troughs can still be seen in the hills around Calderdale. Titus Salt installed indoor toilets at Salts Mill in Bradford with separate cubicles for redheads and Methodists – their's was considered to be of better quality – the Methodists as there would be no alcohol in it and redheads from some obscure reason not known to us. Is it possible it was used in the making of hemp rope?.

 

I can tell you folk that Algy is correct and he isn't taking the p*ss! :lol::lol::lol:

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When I was trying to find out about this I discovered that the nickname for the 5 pence piece is "useless little b**tard". I wonder why? :blink: :blink: :blink:

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