observer Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Seems a London NHS Trust has been described as a basket case, with debts of around a £million per week. So thanks to Gordon and New Labour's PFI schemes, that's another fine mess they got us into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 The problem with PFI wasn't one of concept. After all, getting a commercial organisation to build or buy an asset up front and then receive a return on that investment over a period of time is exactly what anyone who's ever had a mortgage has done. The problems have occurred as a result of lazy negotiation of the deals, lack of any kind of business sense or understanding of risk on the part of the public servants charged with securing them, and lax enforcement of the commercial organisation's compliance with the deal once it's been signed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 There wouldn't be a problem if the increase in NHS funding was in line with the cost of care, but it isn't, it is linked to the inflation rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted June 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Don't think this is about the operation of the NHS, but the provision of "new" buildings by "new" Labour; without the means to pay for them, hence saddling future generations with massive debts and in some cases, no hospital at the end of it. Perhaps the genius who thought up these schemes should be asked to pay for them?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 PFIs were a Tory idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted June 26, 2012 Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 The problem with PFI wasn't one of concept. After all, getting a commercial organisation to build or buy an asset up front and then receive a return on that investment over a period of time is exactly what anyone who's ever had a mortgage has done. You can only take out a mortgage on a house you own. An NHS Trust that commissions a hospital will probably never own it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted June 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2012 Believe they (or some), revert to the ownership of the lender after 30 years or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inky pete Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 So you agree. It's not the principle of PFI which is flawed. It's the detail of deals which NHS and education authority managers have negotiated which is a scandal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 No PFIs are flawed, we are just moving the dept onto the young. The deals that were struck just made them worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted June 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 Depends whether one's view of National Economics should reflect that of responsible Home Economics - IE If yer can't afford it, you don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 That's a bit hard, as you keep saying the baby boomers are good with money, but they had all the advantages in making it ! Free education ! Cheap housing!! Final salary pensions, perhaps they should have paid for new hospitals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted June 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 New buildings don't make "hospitals", but the standards and quality of service within; I recall many of our old local hospitals were housed within "old" buildings. "New" buildings however carry some degree of political cashe; which is why Gordon probably got suckered into the PFI route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 New buildings also tend to be cleaner Obs, and have more modern equipment, and the operating theatres are build round the equipment, and not what can be fitted to an old room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted June 27, 2012 Report Share Posted June 27, 2012 And the administrative staff offices are fit for purpose <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted June 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 "New" doesn't necessarilly mean "cleaner", in bio terms, clinical diciplines and practises govern hygene standards not new bricks and mortar. The first thing that happened with the new Trusts, were new curtains, shops in the foyer etc - all superficial bulls**t; meanwhile special bio-cleaning teams were let go - hence recent super bug problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wahl Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Not only hospitals were built with this crazy scheme. Prisons and suchlike were also built easy to spend someone elses money under brown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Found this. http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/jul/05/pfi-cost-300bn?INTCMP=SRCH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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