Afghanistan -

[Lt Kije]

You got a good sense of humour, and great taste in films algy

[Bazj]

I have it on DVD and very often watch it.

 

DVD.... I remember them back in the 1990's!!

[observer]

Excuse me Kije; twas you who took us on this little tangent re: Empire - the original topic was Afghanistan. You also introduced the idea that those we colonised hated us, I merely reminded you that millions have flocked into the UK from these ex-colonies - that's how much they hated us! :wink:

[Lt Kije]

Yes they have Obs, they might want some of the wealth we stole from them back

[observer]

Yes. and every other global waif and stray too.

[Bazj]

Yes they have Obs, they might want some of the wealth we stole from them back

 

and you accuse me of crap..... just how much wealth would there be in these ex Empire countries if the British hadn't done what we did there to create the wealth in the first place I wonder?

 

If we had colonised somewhere like Somalia instead of India for example, do you think the Somalies would now be a backward, lawless 4th world desert instead of a thriving industrialised super power like India; who now sell to us instead of begging off us and robbing us??

[observer]

Hasn't stopped the Somalis coming over here though Baz! There was a prog on last night, where Somali parents are sending their youngsters to Somalia, to stop them joining London gangs and getting into trouble; gives them a chance to regain their roots and culture - but guess what; they don't stay there. Meanwhile, we've had half the Tamil Tigers in London protesting about a visiting Sri Lankan Leader - presume they took a day off work - or do they have jobs?! :wink: We've allowed them to turn this Country into a joke.

[Lt Kije]

Baz how many people died during PartItian in India, we invented concentration camps in order to keep South Africa, I could go on to the Middle East, The British drew the borders their as we left, I think you will agree with all the conflicts their we did not do a good job, we put are friends in power as we left, So Countries like Bahrain ended up with a minority group governing a majority of people who are of a different ethnic mix, we were not very good at leaving. Frankly we left many Countries in a mess.

[observer]

Think perhaps there would have been a lot more deaths, had there not been a partician of Muslims from Hindus; who are nowadays pointing nukes at each other. As for S/Africa; the concentration camps were used to concentrate the families of Dutch Colonialists (NOT the indigenous population) to prevent them from feeding their guerilla menfolk. Lawrence of Arabia tried to unite the Arabs in controlling their own destiny, but this quickly ended when they couldn't run the basic services in Damascus and ended in tribal discord (watch the film); it took the British Army to restore power and water supply etc! Magabe took over "the bread basket of Africa" - and turned it into a failed State.

[Lt Kije]

The film was fiction based on his book, The Seven pillars of Wisdom, In the book he claims to have crossed the desert in two days, you know the bit in the film where one of the two boys dies in quick sand, It is a feat than cannot be performed now with 4 wheel drives, He was a puppet of the Empire who promised the Arabs much, but ended up giving them nothing. If you get your history from films Obs, you are on a very sticky wicket. But you did pick up a good example of how the Empire made promises to people in order to get them to fight for them, Promices they had no intension of keeping, but it kept the Turks busy. To be fair on Mr Lawarnce I am not sure he new the promises he made were lies.

 

The book and the film are fictional accounts of what happened, And as most Arthur's do when writing about themselves he put himself in a good light. The actual events make good reading, I hope you findout more about what happened, but History books tend to give you more facts than films.

 

The film and the music for it are brilliant, does your information about ancient history come from Ben Hur.

[observer]

Are you challenging the fact that the Arab Council couldn't run service provision in Damascus, which was the point I was making? btw. All history is written from the point of view of the writer. :roll:

[Lt Kije]

You might find this interesting Obs, theirs also bait about Britain and France drawing borders

 

 

In the early years of the 20th century, nationalist sentiment in Damascus, initially cultural in its interest, began to take a political colouring, largely in reaction to the turkicisation programme of the Committee of Union and Progress government established in Istanbul in 1908. The hanging of a number of patriotic intellectuals by Jamal Pasha, governor of Damascus, in Beirut and Damascus in 1915 and 1916 further stoked nationalist feeling, and in 1918, as the forces of the Arab Revolt and the British Imperial forces approached, residents fired on the retreating Turkish troops.

On 1 October 1918, T. E. Lawrence entered Damascus, the third arrival of the day, the first being the 3rd Australian Light Brigade, led by Major A.C.N. 'Harrry' Olden.[45] Two days later, October 3, 1918, the forces of the Arab revolt led by Prince Faysal also entered Damascus.[46] A military government under Shukri Pasha was named and Faisal ibn Hussein was proclaimed king of Syria. Political tension rose in November 1917, when the new Bolshevik government in Russia revealed the Sykes-Picot Agreement whereby Britain and France had arranged to partition the Arab east between them. A new Franco-British proclamation on 17 November promised the "complete and definitive freeing of the peoples so long oppressed by the Turks."[citation needed] The Syrian National Congress in March adopted a democratic constitution. However, the Versailles Conference had granted France a mandate over Syria, and in 1920 a French army commanded by the General Mariano Goybet crossed the Anti-Lebanon Mountains, defeated a small Syrian defensive expedition at the Battle of Maysalun and entered Damascus. The French made Damascus capital of their League of Nations Mandate for Syria.

 

I never saw the Australians enter the city in the film, did you?

[observer]

I think British military personel were kept out of the city, while the Arab Council tried to run it and failed - which again, is the point being made. At that time they basically couldn't organise a p***s up in a brewery, hence the European colonialists took over - now of course they have enough oil money to hire us as help! :wink:

[Lt Kije]

Are you sure they were kept out?

[Lt Kije]

If you want to know more you need to read about King Faisel 1st, and no they were not kept out of the city, that's what comes from getting your history from films.

 

You do know that t was the British that captured an enigma machine, and not the Americans! As in the film U571.

 

Just checking

[observer]

Gen Allenby gave the Arabs the time and opportunity of making a pig's ear of running the City; as clearly he knew them better than you!

[Lt Kije]

They ran the city for 2years, then the UK and France split the old Persian empire up, Damascus ended up with the French, They marched in and dismantled the government and put their own regime in

 

I think it was called the mandate of Siria and Lebanon, might be worth a look Obs, you don't want to be digging yourself out. It shows how the French and the British divided up the middle east and drew borders, borders that bore no concern to the ethnic or religious divergence of the populations, Bahrain ect

[observer]

Know all that Kije; we're talking about the two days or so the Arab Council tried to run Damascus and failed. Still, this won't stop you digressing until you can find something to hang your coat on!

[Lt Kije]

The Arabs ran it for 2years Obs, :wink, you could try looking at the history of the city :

[observer]

Unlike you, I don't have to google everything! The M/East was carved up between the French and British, until they were replaced by secular Dictators like the Assads, who inturn are now being replaced by sectatrian and tribal anarchy.

[Lt Kije]

When The UK and France left the middle east they made sure the people they left in power were sympathetic to them, that they would sign trade deals with them, We and the French did not care if they were a minority government like in Barhrain, or that they oppressed their people. It is a sad fact that most of the leaders in the middle east were put their by the UK and France, the concequences are being played out now, also we drew the borders. We left the Kurds split and in different Countries, where in hind sight they should have had a Country of their own, most of the crap that has been going on in the middle East can be traced back to the British and French drawing of the borders. Yet another legacy to the Empires end.

 

I do not have to google everything, as I have said before, Military history WW1 and WW2 are interests of mine. Can I take t that you now agree that the Arabs looked after themselves in Damascus till the French walked in.

[observer]

Nope.

[Scottie]

As a new member I read with interest the whole thread, and I also wastched the tv programme about Afghanistan,and Ihave to say that Britain's role in their history did not fill me with pride. Someone also mentioned thr Tamils. I feel that the present problems in Sri Lanka were caused by the British Empire's 'importation' of Tamils from India to work in their tea plantations in Ceylon as it was called then. I feel that a lot of the present world problems have their roots in the meddling of the old colonial powers

[Lt Kije]

Good point on the Tamils, another great thing the empre did.

 

Any chance to see your evidence on Damascus

[observer]

Any chance to see YOUR evidence on concentration camps in S/Africa?!