Public Transport

[Dizzy]

Rod,

 

Why not do a 30's plenty campaign? 30 being 30p which is the maximum cost that a single bus ticket should be anywhere within a town or city boundary?? I'd even vote for you myself!

 

 

Now I would fully support that and it's a great idea and I bet everyone would support it and start to use busses more. Infact I'd even pay 60p as that's half the cost of what it currently costs to get from Stockton Heath to Town (hence the reason I never use the bus)

 

As Rod does not seem interested in the pricey costs of using public transport maybe you should start the campaign Baz and I'll be your PA and leaflet maker We'd have to go for a price that rhymes though such as '50s Thrifty' to be taken seriously

[Evil Sid]

only £1.20 from stockton heath to town. that's 30p cheaper than from the hospital on lovely lane to the bus station.

[Dizzy]

Crikey that's expensive.

 

Thinking about it though I might have it the wrong way round and it might be £1.50 from SH to town and £1.20 from town to Warrington Collegiate. I'll ask my son when I pick him up from college later (it's cheaper and quicker for us to pick him up in the car than for him to get the bus home 4 times a week. )

[Cleopatra]

only £1.20 from stockton heath to town. that's 30p cheaper than from the hospital on lovely lane to the bus station.

 

 

I remember when it was only three ha'pence in old money.

[RingoDave]

I very rarely use buses for the following reasons;

Firstly, To get to and from my work would require at least three, sometimes four, buses each way and would take me approximately an hour and a half each way, not including the ten minutes walk at the other end; on top of an eleven hour shift, this is ridiculous. I can drive it, in heavy traffic in twenty minutes costing much less, even with current fuel prices.

Secondly; whenever I need to get somewhere within Warrington, I find that the bus service has stopped hours before I need to get to my destination, let alone trying to get home again later!

 

On the other hand, when I have a day off and want to do something instead of resting, my wife usually persuades me to pay for two "day rovers" and we sightsee over most of Warrington (until the bus service stop for the evening!) at a very reasonable price. I don't yet qualify for a free bus pass, but can't see one making much difference in the light of the above.

[Cleopatra]

I don't use the buses in Warrington either. Much too expensive.

In Egypt I can travel by bus from Alexandria to Cairo, a distance of 140 miles, for the princely fare of 20el (2.12gbp). Needless to say, the buses are full on every journey.

[wolfie]

I'll get that bus the next time I want to go to Central Station.

[rodk]

Crikey that's expensive.

 

Thinking about it though I might have it the wrong way round and it might be £1.50 from SH to town and £1.20 from town to Warrington Collegiate. I'll ask my son when I pick him up from college later (it's cheaper and quicker for us to pick him up in the car than for him to get the bus home 4 times a week. )

 

Dizzy

 

Are you really sure about being quicker? Your time there + your time back + his time back. Are you saying that this is less then his time on the bus?

 

And how about putting a value on his personal independent mobility?

 

And have you taken into account all the costs of the car, including depreciation, insurance, road fund license, etc?

 

I am not saying you shouldn't be able to choose to use your car as a personal taxi service for your son, but maybe its not so much cheaper or time saving as you think.

 

Regards

 

Rod

[rodk]

only £1.20 from stockton heath to town. that's 30p cheaper than from the hospital on lovely lane to the bus station.

 

And both are cheaper than a cup of coffee in Starbucks!

 

Rod

[Cleopatra]

And both are cheaper than a cup of coffee in Starbucks!

 

Rod

 

 

The only answer to that is don't go to Starbucks for a cup of coffee!

[Evil Sid]

never been in a starbucks prefer Coffee in a mug not a soup bowl.

[Dizzy]

Dizzy

 

Are you really sure about being quicker? Your time there + your time back + his time back. Are you saying that this is less then his time on the bus?

 

Yes I'm completely sure thanks Rod as I'm not stupid. He didn't have to be in until 11am this morning so traffic was free moving and it took me 10 minutes to get him to college in my car and then 10 minutes for me to get back. 20 minutes in total. Had be gone on the bus he would have had to leave home at 10am to ensure he got there for 11am

 

And how about putting a value on his personal independent mobility?

 

Which mean what exactly Rod ? Are you saying I force him into letting me take him in the car 2 days a week and that his dad forces him to be picked up in his car if he's coming home the same as he virtually drives past the college on his way home anyway.

 

Our poor little son... we are clearly not allowing him to grow up or test his little wings Perhaps he should hone Childline

 

And have you taken into account all the costs of the car, including depreciation, insurance, road fund license, etc?

 

Errm weird question. I've got a car so I pay insurance, car tax regardless of whether I drop my son off or not Depreciation is irrelevant and does not bother me in the slightest and can't see why you think it would be worth me taking into account anyway.

 

I am not saying you shouldn't be able to choose to use your car as a personal taxi service for your son, but maybe its not so much cheaper or time saving as you think.

 

Blimey Rod, do you live in a strange little world where kids are a menace and should be completely left to their own devices and be fully self sufficient once they start primary school.

 

It's NOT his personal taxi it's my car and I just give him lifts to various places just as I give my mother-in-law lifts to places sometimes and just as I drive myself to places.

 

AND YES IT IS DEFINATELY CHEAPER AND QUICKER FOR ME/THEM. (I'm not shouting by the way, I just thought I'd use capitals so you didn't miss that bit)

[silverlady54]

Go Dizzy!! I think he is running out of excuses!

[rodk]

Well Dizzy

 

I didn't know that he only had to be in college for 11am this morning. Maybe at normal times its not so free flowing. Then maybe 20mins each way would be appropriate. Then you will have spent 40 mins and he will have spent 20mins. A total time of 60mins.

 

I guess its lucky that your husband comes past the college at exactly the right time to pick him up without either of them having to wait around!

 

I am not saying you are forcing anyone. All I am saying is that for teenagers to have independent mobility is a positive thing.

 

Not to attribute any of the capital or running expenses of a car to any particular journey is not realistic. To get true costs of running a car then you should take all factors into account and then spread them across the total miles. Try taking a look at http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/running_costs/index.html

 

It appears that the average running cost of a car is 55p per mile. So for your 6 mile round trip then it would cost on average £3.30. Of course you may have a smaller car than average so in which case the costs would be less. If your son had an under 19 Touch n Go card from Warrington Transport then the cost would be just £8.75 a week or £29 a month then he could travel anywhere he likes in Warrington on the buses. So even if he only used it for 5 days a week to college the cost would only be £1.75 a day.

 

So add up the costs. Its either 40 mins of your time plus £3.30 for car costs and 20 mins of his time, or 60 mins of his time and a cost of £1.75 for the bus (both ways).

 

Please understand that I am not saying what you should do. That is entirly your affair. But please don't delude yourself into thinking that the only costs of providing lifts is the petrol and that the bus cannot provide a cost effective alternative.

 

Anyway I am glad you are not shouting.

 

 

Best regards

 

Rod

[Dizzy]

Bloody hell Rod I feel like I have to reply again now and that will take my time, my energy and I suppose additional costs if you fancy calculating my broaddband charges...not to mention depreciation on my computer through excessive use and god knows what else. EEK !!!

 

As if it wasn't bad enough 'worrying' about my car

 

Maybe tomorrow Rod when I have a little more time as it's been a long and busy day for me and god only know swhy you still don't beleive me and are not willing to accept or at least acknowledge my own humble opinion and facts....

 

I'll give you 10 out of 10 for your entertainment factor and determination to prove me wrong though and keeping me interested and awake in an odd sort of a way

 

I rarely shout by the way and I am very level headed actually but I do find myself giggling a lot these days

 

Night night

[fugtifino]

Something else that should be factored in when comparing public/private transport costs is reliability.

 

Just saying like.

[Cleopatra]

Bloody hell Rod I feel like I have to reply again now and that will take my time, my energy and I suppose additional costs if you fancy calculating my broaddband charges...not to mention depreciation on my computer through excessive use and god knows what else. EEK !!!

 

Electricity, cup of tea, cigarette.

[Dizzy]

Well Dizzy

 

I didn't know that he only had to be in college for 11am this morning. Maybe at normal times its not so free flowing. Then maybe 20mins each way would be appropriate. Then you will have spent 40 mins and he will have spent 20mins. A total time of 60mins.

 

Yes Rod when traffic is not free flowing then it can take 20 minutes each way and if there is gridlock in Warrington then it can take longer but on average it takes me 10 minutes due to the days/times I take him and makes no difference to his dad picking him up either.

 

But where on earth do you get 60 minutes from? ??

 

If it did take me 20 minutes to get him there it would have taken him 20 minutes too as he would be sat next to me in my car.. so therefore that is 20 minutes in total for us travelling from point a to point b together so it’s counted as one journey regardless of how many or how few people are in the car. If my travel back on my own then also took 20 minutes then in total my/our travelling time would be 40 minutes and not 60 minutes as you suggest.

 

Don’t forget that if my travelling time is increased by traffic or delays then so is that of the busses so swings and roundabouts there.

 

I guess its lucky that your husband comes past the college at exactly the right time to pick him up without either of them having to wait around!

 

It is although he detours slightly to go past the college but it makes no difference in 'miles' or ‘cost’ and either he leaves work a little later/earler than normal to accommodate and for ease and vica versa as our son may hang about for a little while in the library etc.

 

I am not saying you are forcing anyone. All I am saying is that for teenagers to have independent mobility is a positive thing.

 

I agree with you there Rod and he actually own two bicycles so he is independantly mobile to some extent but until he has a car of his own he wont be FULLY independent and non reliant on others (including having to rely on busses). So yes independent mobility IS a good thing and me/his dad look forward to the day he has it

 

Not to attribute any of the capital or running expenses of a car to any particular journey is not realistic. To get true costs of running a car then you should take all factors into account and then spread them across the total miles. Try taking a look at http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/running_costs/index.html

 

But I am being realistic Rod but unlike you I don’t analyse every single journey in my car, do you do that ? (I presume you have one). Blimey you must be on pins all the time watching the fuel gauge, milometer and thinking about other factors. I bet that makes you a bad driver too as you wont be concentration on driving as your mind will be elsewhere (ha ha only kidding… I hope).

 

Of course I know it costs money to run a car but are you suggesting that it is far better to choose not to do certain journeys by car and to inconvenience yourself rather than to use one. You could look at it the other way that if you have a car and pay insurance/road tax etc then you might as well use it to get your money’s worth and have the convenience.

 

It appears that the average running cost of a car is 55p per mile. So for your 6 mile round trip then it would cost on average £3.30. Of course you may have a smaller car than average so in which case the costs would be less.

 

I have a 1.6L (with auto 4 wheel drive if it thinks it needs to flick into it) Rod so not it’s not very small.

 

From the interesting link you gave I decided to use their same calculation method and pointers to calculate my own actual costs rather that just take your average given as yours/theirs for example gives insurance average of £725 per year whereas in reality mine is only £200 fully comp per year.

 

I don’t like being an average so I used my own actual figures that I would pay for servicing/tyres/parking etc. I used the same 12.90 pence per mile for petrol as they did though …..and I used the 5000 miles per year calculation (which incidentally is the higher bracket when it comes to calculating costs and the more miles you do the lower their cost chart seemed to show).

 

So based on your link my Dizzy 1.6L Car costs

 

Petrol = 12.90 pence per mile

Insurance = 0.04 pence per mile

Car Tax = 0.05 pence per mile

Servicing = 0.02 pence per mile

Tyres = 0.02 pence per mile (based on me having 4 new tyres at different times over a period of 4 years)

Replacement Parts = 0.08 pence per mile (I had a new part on my door this year but can’t remember ever needing any other parts other than those included in my service)

Depreciation = 1.1 pence per mile (based on what I paid for it and what it’s worth now which is a loss of about £5500.00. I think depreciation should be lower though as I just divided the total loss by 5000 miles per year and perhaps I should have done it over the total number of years I’ve had the car.

 

So MY total based MY actual figures in their table show that my car is costing me 14.19 pence per mile (NOT 55p per mile) Cool and how good is that ?

 

So… my 6 mile round trip to college and back ‘actually’ costs me just over 85p by their calculation and not £3.30 like the ‘average’ you said. Cool that’s good too eh ?

 

 

Note: I did not include Cost of capital … that is what you are loosing by having your money tied up in a vehicle rather than in a savings account gaining you interest. Well interest rates are naff anyway so I wont worry about that as I’ve already spent it… well ok I don’t know how to work that our in pence per mile… but I’m sure that at just over 14p per mile my cars running costs must work out cheaper than if I had done every journey by bus so I will have definitely saved a lot more than I have lost in interest from the building society over the years. Not sure I would ever but a new car though

 

 

If your son had an under 19 Touch n Go card from Warrington Transport then the cost would be just £8.75 a week or £29 a month then he could travel anywhere he likes in Warrington on the buses. So even if he only used it for 5 days a week to college the cost would only be £1.75 a day.

 

He had one of those in his first year of college although it wasn’t called that and it was good but when he got to year two the times of the course meant it was more cost effective for us to do it the way we do.

 

College must have been concerned about the bus travel costs for students too as this year they have provided a FREE bus which picks up at various points for a 9am start. He gets that on a Tuesday and Wednesday not far from our house and that’s a direct bus to college rather than two busses which is great.

 

The under 19’s card is good for anyone who has to do a lot of journeys in Warrington though.

 

So add up the costs. Its either 40 mins of your time plus £3.30 for car costs and 20 mins of his time, or 60 mins of his time and a cost of £1.75 for the bus (both ways).

 

I added up the costs Rod but yours are way off re the £3.30 for 6 miles like I said earlier and I have also noticed that you keep referring to 40 minutes of my time when it actually only usually takes me 20 minutes and I still don’t get why you are including an additional 20 minutes of my sons time because he’s sat next to me in the car.

 

So one outward journey in my car = 20 minutes (or 40 if you would prefer) of my time plus is 85p for a 6 mile journey at (based on ACTUAL costs for me at just over 14.19p per mile and not your stated AA’s AVERAGE of 55p per mile)

 

Vs

 

One outward journey by bus = 60 minutes of his time and £2.70+ in costs (standard bus fair for 2 busses) which works out at £21.60 for the week)

 

VS

 

Under 19’s saver card which would work out at 87.5p for each journey to/from college providing he used it for the 6 times we pick up/drop off and continued to use the college FREE bus on the other two occasions.

 

So…….

 

Standard bus service is without doubt the dearest and less convenient option

 

Saver Card – a possibility and worth it if you do a lot of travel around Warrington

 

Our cars – slightly cheaper than the saver card but not much in it really but far more convenient and quicker in travel time and way better than standard bus service.

 

 

Please understand that I am not saying what you should do. That is entirly your affair. But please don't delude yourself into thinking that the only costs of providing lifts is the petrol and that the bus cannot provide a cost effective alternative.

 

I am definitely not deluded Rod and I do understand. Infact I understand a lot more now thanks to you, your information and your links.

 

I realise it is something you are passionate about but maybe that’s your problem ie you can’t actually see the reality sometimes and maybe your judgement is slightly clouded by what you believe in and what you hope to achieve.

 

Maybe that in turn results in you sometimes interpreting things slightly differently and then you pass on your interpretation and findings in a way that is believable but maybe not 100% accurate or true to individuals but they believe what they read without looking into the bigger picture or maybe even the smaller picture closer to home. (I mean that in the nicest possible way of course)

 

I was shocked when you said the average running cost of a car was 55p per mile and many people may read or hear that and be shocked too unless they do what I did and recalculate it based on their OWN personal figures and their own usage and costs for insurance/tax etc etc etc.

 

I was pleasantly surprised to find that mines not actually that bad so thanks for the info and the link.

,

,

,

,

,

,

 

PS as I am an honest person Rod as in all reality my 14.19p as calculated and stated using the AA’s method from YOUR link where you quoted and average of 55p per mile is not actually correct either as I know how many miles I got out of my £20 worth or petrol so that combined with the other costs actually means my car has cost me 22p per mile.

 

Just shows you though eh how we can all become more than once and in more than one way if we try to prove a point either in favour or against without looking into everything fully with an open mind and report back honestly

 

Best regards Rod and everyone and happy travelling…

 

and don’t forget your waterproofs if you are on your bikes or walking to the bus stop tomorrow as the forecast is more RAIN !! If anyone want to borrow our canoes just ask

[Dizzy]

Electricity, cup of tea, cigarette.

 

you forgot obsessive madness but I think that comes free with my broadband package and forum membership

[fugtifino]

<presents Dizzy with the Award for the Longest Post Ever on WWW>

 

<Adds polite applause>

 

<Waits for Rod to point out that cycling is the solution to all your transport woes>

 

_{Starts stopwatch}

[rodk]

Dizzy

 

Many thanks for a very full and informative post. I think that this discussion is very useful and I do believe that it is showing some very interesting aspects regarding how people choose their journies.

 

I think that one of your first posts on this issue said

......maybe if they just reduced the extortionate price of bus fares more people may use them more often

 

We have now agreed that the cost of getting to College is just 87.5p. In fact I suggested basing this on the Touch n Go price for the whole Warrington network at £8.75 per week. In fact if you live north of Owen's Corner then the cost is just £6.75. That would therefore bring the price of a journey down to 67.5p if you only used the bus pass for those 10 journeys across Warrington.

 

You have compared that to the cost of your journey taking him at 85p. So it really is difficult to understand how one could describe bus fares as "extortionate".

 

I think some of your costs are interesting. Please forgive me if I don't comment further on these straight away but will come back to you later, if only to get some tips on where you can get your car serviced so cheaply.

 

Thanks for all the effort.

 

Best regards

 

 

Rod

[Cleopatra]

The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round...round and round...The wheels on the bus go round and round...all day long...

[Dizzy]

<presents Dizzy with the Award for the Longest Post Ever on WWW>

 

 

I'd just like to thank my friends, my family, and everyone on this forum but most of all I'd like to thank Rod as without his commitment and encouragement I would have never won <I take a bow and blush>

 

PS Cleo... just one more little roatation I promise

[Dizzy]

Dizzy

 

Many thanks for a very full and informative post. I think that this discussion is very useful and I do believe that it is showing some very interesting aspects regarding how people choose their journies.

 

Glad you find it interesting and useful Rod

 

I think that one of your first posts on this issue said

......maybe if they just reduced the extortionate price of bus fares more people may use them more often

 

We have now agreed that the cost of getting to College is just 87.5p. In fact I suggested basing this on the Touch n Go price for the whole Warrington network at £8.75 per week. In fact if you live north of Owen's Corner then the cost is just £6.75. That would therefore bring the price of a journey down to 67.5p if you only used the bus pass for those 10 journeys across Warrington.

 

Yes we have agreed (although clearly only to some extent ) and like I said the Touch and Go under 19's saver card does sound good and we would buy one for him to get to college if our/his circumstances were different and it was not convenient for us to occasionally pick up/drop off.

 

You have compared that to the cost of your journey taking him at 85p. So it really is difficult to understand how one could describe bus fares as "extortionate".

 

It's not difficult Rod as I (and others who said the same) was/were referring to the normal cost of bus fares as being extortionate ie the fares for people who do not have any form of saver card and who might just use the busses more ofted IF the standard price was reduced. I would happily pop into town on the bus to shop or go to the library more often if it was half the price it is now

 

I think some of your costs are interesting. Please forgive me if I don't comment further on these straight away but will come back to you later, if only to get some tips on where you can get your car serviced so cheaply.

 

I'm sure you will comment later and probably correct some of my calculations if I've got them wrong (I don't think I have though).

 

eg : Full Service cost £99 / 5000 (miles) = 0.0198 pence per mile ... rounded up to 0.02

 

Thanks for all the effort.

 

Do I sense a touch of sarcasm there Rod

[Cleopatra]

I did.