asperity Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 CO2 obscures sunlight There's an interesting idea. Something invisible which obscures sunlight!! I think you're getting slightly confused. In any case the "greenhouse effect" has been effectively debunked several times and is down to a basic misunderstanding of the science involved. A gas cannot trap heat or anything else, it's a gas not a solid. The world is not headed towards catastrophic runaway warming, if anything we're headed towards a new ice age which would be catastrophic as cold kills more people than warm. :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 I would agree Obs is getting confused? The ozone layer, issue layer of gas o3, this gas absorbs About 98% of ultraviolet light which is harmfully to animal life, Co2 is one of many gases that attack ozone, and reduses its effect. Peter, 10 out of 10 for trying to blame the EU, I had no idea, all of the Western World were in it, Japan USA, Astralia ect,, so all of these Countries are in on the con , As I said earlier if they can work so closely on ripping off their own population, just think what they could do if they got together about a real issue such as feeding the whole planet. Really Peter I thought more of you than that. The greenhouse effect has not been effectively debunked Asp, only in your world. Asp, I had a look at Watermelons, even your author agrees with global warming, he just thinks its a good think, And everyone else is a communist James Delingpole is a libertarian conservative, that's in his own words from his web site, So he has not got an axe to grind then has he, I think it is a best seller in the libertarian conservative book club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 Lt Kije, no-one with an ounce of sense denies that the world is in a warming state, it has been since the end of the last ice age!!!! The argument is over whether we are having an effect on it, and if it is better to be warm rather than cold. And what is wrong with being a libertarian conservative? You say it as if it's something to be ashamed of. You really do have a confused idea of the real world. Everyone is entitled to their view, and I'm afraid yours is wrong. But you are entitled to hold it. :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 Their is nothing wrong with being a libertarian conservative Asp, but they do have an agenda, They believe it should be up to the individual to decide, which for the most part I agree with, unless it is an issue that will effect all, Then you should toe the line and work for the greater good. Whose view should take presidencies, a libertarian who wants to do something that will benefit himself, but adversely effect many others, who do not want it. I believe the many's view should hold sway in such cases.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 You are wrong. A libertarian supports the idea that the individual should be able to live his life in his own way but only as long as this doesn't adversely affect the lifestyle of others. The bansturbators however (anti smoking, anti drinking, anti fast food, climate change freaks) however want to do nothing but affect the freedom of others. :angry: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 Asp, on smoking, fast food drinking ect I agree with you, but not on global warming, When I leave this planet, I would like to leave those than come after me a sustainable future, and a Planet with as many life forms on it as when I arrived. The evidence is with me, I agree it is not 100%, but waiting for it to become so, would be leaving to late to do anything. So I think we should agree to disagree, we have both tried before to move each other and have failed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boris1066 Posted June 2, 2012 Report Share Posted June 2, 2012 There's an interesting idea. Something invisible which obscures sunlight!! I think you're getting slightly confused. In any case the "greenhouse effect" has been effectively debunked several times and is down to a basic misunderstanding of the science involved. A gas cannot trap heat or anything else, it's a gas not a solid. The world is not headed towards catastrophic runaway warming, if anything we're headed towards a new ice age which would be catastrophic as cold kills more people than warm. :wink: Various gases do absorb enrgy(light) at various frequencies in the spectrum. The ozone layer filters out harmful light and it was being destroyed, particularly at the poles, by the use of CFC's released by aerosols, refrigerants and similar which were in wide use World-wide. Governments came together in Montreal in 1987 to agree a protocol banning their use throughout the World. This has largely eliminated the problem and the hole in the ozone layer is repairing itself and expected to be in good health by the middle of the century !!! The argument for CO2 warming is that it allegedly prevents infra red heat from escaping back in to space thus warming up the atmosphere. The hysteria surrounding the varous apocolyptic predictions made by various bodies are gradually proving to be not as grave as predicted. Unfortunately the kind of budgets required to prevent something which seems to be not happening is likely to bancrupt us !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Asp, on smoking, fast food drinking ect I agree with you, but not on global warming, When I leave this planet, I would like to leave those than come after me a sustainable future, and a Planet with as many life forms on it as when I arrived. Sadly there is one problem with that wish. It is the greed of man, who is slowly destroying the planet. Even the oceans are being affected by oil pollution. Ant the only life forms that will still be there and increasing are human. The animal life forms are getting extinct pretty quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Sadly there is one problem with that wish. It is the greed of man, who is slowly destroying the planet. Even the oceans are being affected by oil pollution. Ant the only life forms that will still be there and increasing are human. The animal life forms are getting extinct pretty quickly. I wish bloody ants were! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davy51 Posted June 3, 2012 Report Share Posted June 3, 2012 Sadly there is one problem with that wish. It is the greed of man, who is slowly destroying the planet. Even the oceans are being affected by oil pollution. Ant the only life forms that will still be there and increasing are human. The animal life forms are getting extinct pretty quickly. All in all, if this problem is a creation of mankind ,it does ,at times , make me wonder if the human race is just a tragic ,accidental spin off from the rest of the animal kingdom & " afflicted" with a superior intelligence that could wipe out all life on earth. This intelligence has enabled mankind to overcome its natural enemies of disease & famine (in places where it wants to) ,its only other population control factor being war that & is usually the scourge of the innocents caught up in it. Humanity is a self serving machine that would love to devour everything in front of it & sod everything else.That is human nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 All in all, if this problem is a creation of mankind ,it does ,at times , make me wonder if the human race is just a tragic ,accidental spin off from the rest of the animal kingdom & " afflicted" with a superior intelligence that could wipe out all life on earth. This intelligence has enabled mankind to overcome its natural enemies of disease & famine (in places where it wants to) ,its only other population control factor being war that & is usually the scourge of the innocents caught up in it. Humanity is a self serving machine that would love to devour everything in front of it & sod everything else.That is human nature. Surely, the disease and famine was man made in the first place.the problem being that the sheep are the majority and follow whoever spins the best tale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Some of us have recognised our greed Peter and want to do something about it, others have also recognised it and stuffed 2 fingers to those that come afterwards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 I hate to disagree with you Peter, but the vast majority of oil pollution these days comes from naturally occurring escapes of crude oil from cracks in the sea bed.And nature deals with this very adequately thank you. The holes in the ozone layer are naturally occurring also. Ozone is formed by the action of sunlight on oxygen in the atmosphere, and what happens in winter? There is no sunlight for long periods at each pole in turn, and hence no ozone formed. As I said before the people who "discovered" the holes just jumped to the conclusion that it was the fault of "evil" mankind. And Lt Kije you are right in thinking that I don't give a jot about what happens when I'm dead. My existence on this planet is but a blink of an eye in the long history of a planet that was here millions of years before animal life existed and will still be here millions of years after all life has gone. A fact that you might not be happy with but a fact all the same. <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 I do not know where you get your information from Asp, about the ozone Layer, perhaps you would let me know, but it is wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 You do know that ozone is formed by the action of UV radiation on oxygen don't you Lt Kije? (It's also destroyed by it, but that's fortunate otherwise we would have to learn to live on ozone!) So it follows that in the absence of sunlight (during the winter months at each pole) there is no production of ozone and hence the holes at the poles. If it was due to the chemicals we put in the atmosphere the holes would be above the centres of poulation. Logical :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Might be wrong, but I would have thought weather conditions would play a part, it depends where the gas ends up, logical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 If it was due to the chemicals we put in the atmosphere the holes would be above the centres of poulation. Logical :wink: I had some respect for your views Asp upto that last sentence which is utter crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Might be wrong, but I would have thought weather conditions would play a part, it depends where the gas ends up, logical Kije, you are correct, the reason why the ozone hole is over the Antarctic is down to the weather, the polar winds (or vortex), the lack of sunlight and very low temperatures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 I had some respect for your views Asp upto that last sentence which is utter crap. Pray enlighten us with your wisdom, or calling my view "utter crap" as far as it goes? :grin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 A little light reading for your Bank Holiday afternoon (I'm working anyway): Ozone reality I dare say you will choose to either ignore this or call it utter crap. Up to you, I don't give a damn :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 It's a corporate funded web site, Asp, Are you saying they have no axe to grind, Why don't you look at where you get your information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Asp, if you don't give a damn, why are you posting links to try and prove a point? If you look at the reply I gave to Kije you will see that we almost agree. The point we don't agree on is that if it had anything to do with cfc's, it would not be logical to assume that thinning of the ozone would occur above the areas of high population. Any emmissions would be spread all over the world as a result of the weather and concentrated around the poles because of the polar vortex. The fact that ozone is thinner around the Antarctic is as I have stated and is confirmed in your article note the step cooling at the same time as the sudden drop in apparent mean ozone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 It's a corporate funded web site, Asp, Are you saying they have no axe to grind, Why don't you look at where you get your information. Even private websites have to get their money from somewhere Lt Kije, and as government money (and most of the evil fossil fuels money) goes to the warmists he can't get any there. Steve Milloy is one of the scientists who you would have us believe don't exist - one who doesn't promote climate change/global boring as being man-made and a danger to the world. He helped to prove that the famed "hockey stick" was a fraud and continues to expose the frauds. But you believe what you want to and carry on giving the rich more of your money allowing the scams to continue. :wink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 But your web site is founded from American coal, who have much to loose, would you not agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Talking through your fundament again Lt Kije :roll: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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