Eagle Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 http://uk.news.yahoo.com/hillsborough-documents-blame-fans-142709321.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 There was always the risk that it would come back and smack them in the face. Would have been better to leave well alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 It has not come back to slap them in the face, those Police reports were made days after the event. They were an attempt by the Police to apportion blame elsewhere. The fans were vindicated in the end it was a cock up by south Yorkshire police. The distasteful part is it is merseyside police pointing the finger at the people they are employed to protect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 So - no poo fans were drunk or tried to get in without tickets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgusted Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 It has not come back to slap them in the face, those Police reports were made days after the event. They were an attempt by the Police to apportion blame elsewhere. The fans were vindicated in the end it was a cock up by south Yorkshire police. The distasteful part is it is merseyside police pointing the finger at the people they are employed to protect Err, yes it has. Why is it distatsful for the Merseyside police to point the finger of blame where it actually lies? I know it's a Scouse thing to always defend their own whatever the rights or wrongs of a situation, but in the real world, many people do look at things even handedly, as appears to have happened here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 Fans, policing, stadium layout, fencing, security measures and possibly many other factors all contributed to the loss of lives on that very tragic day. It should never have happened but it did, and spending over 20 years trying to point a finger to determine one particular source of 'blame' when there were so many factors involved will not bring any of those poor people back who so very sadly lost their lives that day. If nothing more then perhaps lessons have now been learnt from all sides and all angles from such a tragedy I don't mean to offend or upset anyone by my comment as I too remember the day vividly and the images were heartbreaking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 As I said earlier this wa an earlier police report, when it was investigated it was found to be south Yorkshire police who got it wrong. I think people need to get over their anti scouse sentiment, it was investigated, south yorkshire police were found to be at fault Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 15, 2012 Report Share Posted March 15, 2012 They certainly commited an error opening that gate, and forcing all those fans to enter the stadium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 As I said earlier this wa an earlier police report, when it was investigated it was found to be south Yorkshire police who got it wrong. I think people need to get over their anti scouse sentiment, it was investigated, south yorkshire police were found to be at fault Not sure that publishing the views of a scouse Merseyside cop can be regarded as anti scouse. :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgusted Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 As I said earlier this wa an earlier police report, when it was investigated it was found to be south Yorkshire police who got it wrong. I think people need to get over their anti scouse sentiment, it was investigated, south yorkshire police were found to be at fault I see you dodged the "distasteful" issue there Lt, can you explain why it is distasteful for the Merseyside police to feel Scousers were to blame? I think in all honesty, it's the Scousers who need to get over their anti-Police sentiment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted March 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 The distasteful part is it is merseyside police pointing the finger at the people they are employed to protect I see where you are coming from there Loo, you think that Merseyside police should be on the side of scousers simply because they are scoucers. Not sure of your use of 'protect' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 Not quite eagle, I think it was an early atempt by the police to divert blame, Because when they did have the inquiry, it was found to be South Yorkshire police to blame. One Police force sticking up for another. The truth came out in the end. To be honest I can not see why they are releasing these documents now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 Cos those whinging Scouser want to get their claims for compen sorted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 it was found to be South Yorkshire police to blame. Lt, the investigation said that the actions of the South Yorkshire Police was A Factor As for releasing the documents, the 'Hillsborough justice for the 96' has been asking for these documents to be released for 23 years, that's why I said it would have been better to leave well alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 "Hillsborough documents leaked: Calls for police apology after slurs from former Merseyside cops about tragedy ANGRY families today called for answers into why senior Merseyside Police officers told a Margaret Thatcher advisor Liverpool fans were to blame for the Hillsborough tragedy. Relatives who lost loved ones at the 1989 semi-final learnt how then-chief constable Ken Oxford and another high-ranking colleague pointed the finger at “ticketless” and “drunken” supporters for the disaster which killed 96 people. In further disturbing revelations a Merseyside officer also wrongly linked Hillsborough to the 1985 Heysel tragedy and was quoted saying he was “deeply ashamed” of Reds supporters in a BBC report into a leaked document. Campaigners described the accusations, since proven as wrong, as “appalling and disgraceful” and demanded an apology. Pressure was today on Merseyside Police to respond to the claims made by the late Sir Ken Oxford four days after the fatal crush and who also expressed his unease at the shrine at Anfield when Liverpool opened its doors for grieving families. But the current chief constable held back from such a step and a statement only said: “It is inappropriate to comment any further on its leaked report content. The Hillsborough tragedy directly affected many people across Merseyside and beyond. We understand its profound impact and we continue to extend our deepest sympathies to the families and friends of those who lost their lives.” The Bishop of Liverpool, heading the independent panel studying up to two million previously hidden papers on the tragedy, urged patience but recognised the hurt the revelations had prompted. He told the ECHO: “I understand the reaction to these files. “However it’s important to wait until all the files are released and published in order to form a proper understanding of the tragedy and its aftermath. “The panel has accessed over 400,000 pages and is still finding more documents. It is painstakingly researching these according to its terms of reference.” Margaret Aspinall, who lost her son James, 18, told the ECHO: “It angers me that our own police force were saying these things within days of the tragedy. “To put Heysel in the same light as Hillsborough is so hurtful to the families. “And to criticise the shrine at Anfield was an absolute disgrace. The cover-up started just hours after Liverpool fans died. “I’m not surprised now what goes on behind closed doors. “Ken Oxford has since died but I wonder if he still always held the same views? “We know what Thatcher thought about football fans generally but to hear our own police force repeating that is hard to take. “I would like to ask Merseyside Police: ‘do you have the same opinion now?’ They should say sorry as the police played a big part in the injustice of Hillsborough.” Families questioned how Ken Oxford was able to make clear judgements so soon after the tragedy even though he wasn’t at the match. His assistant chief constable Sir James Sharples was in attendance, however, and focus could now fall on any conversations between him and his superior in the aftermath. The ECHO tried to contact Mr Sharples but he was unavailable. Sheila Coleman, spokeswoman for the Hillsborough Justice Campaign, described the leak as “highly coincidental” and added: “The emphasis on Merseyside Police rather than South Yorkshire is really suspicious. “The force actually involved in the disaster is not there. That’s appalling. What’s been leaked has put the emphasis on Liverpool not the government where it should be. “This is a diversionary tactic which will have no bearing on the truth. His comments about the shrine at Anfield shows a distinct lack of understanding of Liverpool people.” Anne Williams, whose son Kevin, 15, died, said: “Where did Oxford get his information from? Was it South Yorkshire Police? He was not even at the semi-final. I’m not surprised with these comments. Let’s remember how Superintendent Duckenfield lied and said Liverpool fans forced the gates. “This is the tip of the iceberg. When the panel brings out its findings we will hear of more corruption. I welcome the truth coming out. It can’t keep hiding away. We are breaking through slowly and we will get there.” ‘It’s awful to think a senior Merseyside police officer was repeating Hilslborough lies at the highest level ‘ - Joe Anderson POLITICIANS across Merseyside were united in their condemnation of the former police chiefs’ views. Liverpool council leader Joe Anderson said: “It seems clear to me that the powers that be across police forces and Whitehall were communicating with each other to protect each other. “Merseyside Police should have been sticking up for the people of Merseyside. “It’s awful to think that a Merseyside senior police officer was supporting and repeating lies at the highest level. This was a long time ago and it is a different organisation now. “I don’t think this chief constable or any other serving Merseyside Police officer can be blamed.” City leader Cllr Anderson attacked the British Broadcasting Corporation for “reporting lies without saying they are lies”. But the BBC wholly rejected some accusations that their report had smeared Liverpool fans. A spokesman said: “In both broadcast and online reports we have said prominently that the official inquiry found the main cause of the disaster had been the failure in crowd control by South Yorkshire Police. “But we believe it is wholly in the public interest also to report the advice being given to the Prime Minister in the immediate aftermath.” Liverpool’s deputy Lib Dem leader Richard Kemp said: “The appalling news that Margaret Thatcher was being briefed by the police that Liverpool fans were ‘drunk’, explains a lot in terms of the way the issues have been dealt with by government for the past 23 years. “I am delighted that this government is releasing all documents, no matter how sensitive they are, so that grieving families can at last feel that all the truth has been brought into the public view.” Walton MP Steve Rotheram said he will demand – in Parliament on Monday – an immediate investigation into the source of the leak to the BBC. And he revealed that he and Andy Burnham will send a strongly-worded letter to Mark Thompson, the BBC's director-general, to protest at the Corporation's coverage of the Cabinet papers. Mr Rotheram told the ECHO: “Why this particular collection of documents when there are millions of others? “I said after the Parliament debate to beware of the backlash. I was aware the government had been seen to back down and they don’t like doing that. “It’s despicable someone like Ken Oxford, charged with policing Merseyside, jumped to those wrong conclusions that Liverpool fans were to blame. “It reflects badly on Merseyside Police. Margaret Simey was chairwoman of the Merseyside County Police Committee and was always at loggerheads with Ken Oxford who was a Thatcher sympathiser and an establishment figure. “Merseyside Police should make a statement today. I’m a big fan of chief constable Jon Murphy but he needs to make the force’s position very clear.” Voice of the ECHO: Whole truth of Hillsborough tragedy cannot be told until all documents are studied and disclosed" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 The Taylor report very clearly pointed the blame at the police Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 The Taylor report very clearly pointed the blame at the police No, the Taylor report stated "the main reason for the disaster was the failure of police control not the only reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 Taylor did, however, exonerate the supporters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 So who were "the supporters" and who were "the mindless mob"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 Was their a mindless mob or were they made up to deflect attention elsewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 What the Taylor report said about the supporters. There were accusations that the behaviour of the Liverpool fans contributed to the disaster. These centered around consumption of alcohol before the game and attempts to enter the ground without a ticket. Although Lord Taylor acknowledged that these aggravated the situation, they were only secondary factors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 So the fans were not to blame then Wolfie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 So the fans were not to blame then Wolfie? Can't recall ever saying they were Lt. however, whilst the Taylor report was heavily criticised, and from all sides, there seems little doubt that the main cause of the disaster was three-fold: the design of the stadium, the conduct of the fans allied with a decision to open the second gate, the latter being the main reason for the disaster in the opinion of Taylor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 Can't recall ever saying they were Lt. however, whilst the Taylor report was heavily criticised, and from all sides, there seems little doubt that the main cause of the disaster was three-fold: the design of the stadium, the conduct of the fans allied with a decision to open the second gate, the latter being the main reason for the disaster in the opinion of Taylor. The Taylor Report says no such thing. It attributes blame and critisism to the South Yorkshire Police, The F.A., Sheffield Council and Sheffield Wednesday F.C. If you carry on like this Woolfie people will begin to suspect you have an anti Scouse agenda to pursue but that cant possibly be true now can it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted March 16, 2012 Report Share Posted March 16, 2012 PJ, I never said that the Taylor report said such a thing, if I did I would have put the statement between quotes. The blame on the South Yorkshire police was down to opening the second gate and was regarded as the main reason for the disaster according to Taylor, which is what I have posted. With the history of my posts on this forum it would be difficult to deny an anti scouse agenda, however, over recent months I have attempted to tone down many of my comments and tried to be more objective(not very successfully I see). Having said that, quite a few on here have strong views on certain subjects but they are all entitled to air them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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