Bazj Posted March 9, 2012 Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 We should stay and see it through. To what outcome? When the Afghan army takes over, it will be less than 6 months later that anarchy rules again and half of the soldiers are dead and chopped up by the talibanie crazys..... There is no end game to this; The taliban fought off the might of the Russian army (who incidentally didn't follow the same moralistic codes that our armies have to follow, they just went in guns blazing and shot anything that moved.....) We cannot defeat an enemy that you can't see Kije. Get out now and strengthen our homeland security. Boot out anyone who is of the slightest risk; and their families and boot them out to whatever country we can. Then, lock the door, build the carriers and go kick Argentinas ass again! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2012 Sorry Kije, but you and your ilk don't live in the real world, but sleepwalk from one daydream to the next, while the real world slips from one crisis to the next. You havn't offered one cogent arguement in support of keeping our troops in Afghanistan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Obs according to you, anyone that disagrees with you does not have an argument you use your usual tactic and insult them. We should stay and see the job we went to do, or wait till the Afgan army stands a chance on its own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Obs according to you, anyone that disagrees with you does not have an agreement, you use your usual tactic and insult them. We should stay and see the job we went to do, or wait till the Afgan army stands a chance on its own. It will never happen. The regime is full of Taliban waiting for our troops to leave and then they will take over AGAIN. How can you eliminate them when the people support them? All that would be achieved if we stayed there, would be many more deaths and a lot of money that would be better off used at home. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Yes the regime has Taliban in it, but full of them, you seem to have intelligence that the Americans and the British do not have Peter. Will you be passing it on to them along with your source. The afghan defence force has to be built up before we leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 A leaked NATO intelligence report suggests extensive penetration of the Afghan Police and Army by Taliban and their sympathisers. Several incidents have already occured of these "sleepers" breaking cover to assinate NATO soldiers and officials (last one was over the Quran burning incident). The general view of the population remains supportive of Islam and it's more archaic aspects (their current Parliament passed a law upholding rape within marriage), which means second rate citizenship and no education for females. It has to be hoped, for their sake, that the Taliban do take complete control when we leave; as the probability is one of tribal civil war and a return to War Lordism. So all in all, one hell of a mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 I read about them Obs, That is why the Afgans with American consent are talking with the less oppressive parts of the Taliban, divide and and rule. Their will be compromise in the end their always is, but we can not leave now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 These people have been fighting each other as tribes for centuries; and have tended to unite only to see off succesive foreign invaders. Like it or not, a majority see us as "foreign" occupiers. Divide and conquer won't work, as it will merely promote civil war when we do leave. Much better to accept the strongest faction take over and provide an element of stability, however anachronistic. Which basically would take us right back to the situation that applied prior to our intervention. The lesson is: to fight terrorism, requires the application of joint international intelligence, with surgical strikes on identified targets by drones, air stikes, special force raids or (at home) Police raids. The deployment of large numbers of conventional static occupation forces in any failed State, invites attrition and heavy casualties. The lesson for preventative action upstream is: that we pursue policies of secularisation at home, particularly in education, and insist on the assimilation of cultures into the main stream, rather than promoting overt "diversity" and seperate parallel development, as advocated by the liberal luvvies for the past 30 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Was not a nice regime pre 1978, but it was stable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Was not a nice regime pre 1978, but it was stable. I didn't like Callaghan either!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Neither did I Baz, but he was so much better than the witch that came later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted March 10, 2012 Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Neither did I Baz, but he was so much better than the witch that came later. The Bliar Witch???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2012 Bliar's contribution to "prevention" was to encourage the creation of even more "faith" schools, thus ensuring future generations of "believers" programmed to follow the drum. No doubt he can seek absolution for his sins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Well isn't he a cat lick now?.... I'm suprised he didn't go the whole hog and embrace islam!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Harry and Kije, you are totally and absolutely wrong. Cameron should accept that he is on a loser and cut his losses, poor analogy I know, and get the hell out of the place. Joining the armed forces is now akin to playing a game of Russian Roulette to allow political gobbins save face. Harry when we eventually pull out, with your approval, how many "deaths in vain" will you find acceptable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Going off subject slightly in reply to eagle. People join the armed services to fight not to knit, they have always been the play thing of our political masters. If you don't want to fight don't join the army. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 What has Afghanistan got to do with "Fighting for Queen and Country"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry hayes Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 All very emotive Eagle. War is war. As I fought in Korea, we questioned what we were doing there. Twenty eight of us never came back. and in that we were lucky? Joining the armed services has always been playing Russian Roulette. For good or ill, we are on a crusade - as we see it. To me, seeing it through is the only real option. Happy days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 I agree with you Harry. Eagle to answer your question, I suggest you see the reasons for ging in. I think we should be careful, yes the subject should be discussed but we have to be careful not to undermine moral of our troops who are over their, as happened to the Americans in Vietnam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 I agree with you Harry. Eagle to answer your question, I suggest you see the reasons for ging in. I think we should be careful, yes the subject should be discussed but we have to be careful not to undermine moral of our troops who are over their, as happened to the Americans in Vietnam. As Lt says, a very emotive subject and there are relatives in the Warrington area who have already lost there lads in this conflict as well as others who have lads over there and who possibly read the content of WW, perhaps it's time to put this one to bed!, otherwise it just becomes a pointless squabbling fiasco. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Kije Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 I agree algy, I think we should just respect that their are different views on this, never to be reconciled. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Unfortunately, it's folk like you Kije, that put our young soldiers into harm's way in the first place, on the basis of naive myopic reasoning. Aside from genacide, corporate manslaughter could be added to the charges against politicians who have thrown away the lives of our young folk on these ill judged adventures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Unfortunately, it's folk like you Kije, that put our young soldiers into harm's way in the first place, on the basis of naive myopic reasoning. Aside from genacide, corporate manslaughter could be added to the charges against politicians who have thrown away the lives of our young folk on these ill judged adventures. I think that is 'over the top' obs, if in some way Lt could be identified, some idiot could take your remark literally and set out to do Lt some harm!, bit naughty that!. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted March 11, 2012 Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 I think that is 'over the top' obs, if in some way Lt could be identified, some idiot could take your remark literally and set out to do Lt some harm!, bit naughty that!. I agree Algy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted March 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2012 Your reasoning could apply to anyone who supports the war Alg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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