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River Mersey New Cut


arty69uk
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yes it was !

Thanks arty69uk, Thames Board, as seen from Chester Road, I do remember this, I think one or two of the riverside warehouses were there in the late 60's/early 1970's although I don't remember the barges (before my time!) I am still searching around to see if anyone has photos of the branch of the Mersey when it was in use, which went from Chester Road beside Gainsborough Road towards Greenalls, which was drained/filled in, mid to late 1950's.

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Thanks arty69uk, Thames Board, as seen from Chester Road, I do remember this, I think one or two of the riverside warehouses were there in the late 60's/early 1970's although I don't remember the barges (before my time!) I am still searching around to see if anyone has photos of the branch of the Mersey when it was in use, which went from Chester Road beside Gainsborough Road towards Greenalls, which was drained/filled in, mid to late 1950's.

Middlec, I had a short spell on maintenance at Thames Board in 1969 after leaving ICI, I returned to ICI 9 months later (long story and not bore you with it now), the warehouse/loading bay was there then and they were still unloading high quality pulp by barge coming from Finland via Birkenhead and Liverpool.

The only photo I have of the section of river from Chester road to the back of Greenall's has been on here before, I have cropped and enlarged a section showing from under the road bridge with the bank on the left where the bungalows on Gainsborough road were built a hundred years after the 1891 photo was taken. There is a cut in to the immediate right of the photo then a small second one and then by the large building on the right bank that is where the lock would be built across the river, the two maps below show the first in 1877, 17 years before the MS canal was operational and the second 1n 1896 two years after completion.

If anyone (Dizz) could enlighten me as to what the purpose of that large building is on the right bank, I would be 'Chuffed to little acorns' doesn't look like private house to me, it looks industrial or commercial.

 

OldRiverMerseylookingtowardsWilderspool.jpg

 

1877.jpg

 

1896.jpg

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Middlec, I had a short spell on maintenance at Thames Board in 1969 after leaving ICI, I returned to ICI 9 months later (long story and not bore you with it now), the warehouse/loading bay was there then and they were still unloading high quality pulp by barge coming from Finland via Birkenhead and Liverpool.

The only photo I have of the section of river from Chester road to the back of Greenall's has been on here before, I have cropped and enlarged a section showing from under the road bridge with the bank on the left where the bungalows on Gainsborough road were built a hundred years after the 1891 photo was taken. There is a cut in to the immediate right of the photo then a small second one and then by the large building on the right bank that is where the lock would be built across the river, the two maps below show the first in 1877, 17 years before the MS canal was operational and the second 1n 1896 two years after completion.

If anyone (Dizz) could enlighten me as to what the purpose of that large building is on the right bank, I would be 'Chuffed to little acorns' doesn't look like private house to me, it looks industrial or commercial.

 

 

 

OldRiverMerseylookingtowardsWilderspool.jpg

 

1877.jpg

 

1896.jpg

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There was a sand hopper down on the banks of the MSC ( and near the river in those days)Whether this building had anything to do with that I don't know. Dizzy may know, but I know someone who has lived around that area for many years and may possibly know the answer. It goes without saying algy, that your photos are great, along with arty69uk, and the info accompanying them is very much appreciated.

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There was a sand hopper down on the banks of the MSC ( and near the river in those days)Whether this building had anything to do with that I don't know. Dizzy may know, but I know someone who has lived around that area for many years and may possibly know the answer. It goes without saying algy, that your photos are great, along with arty69uk, and the info accompanying them is very much appreciated.

I don't think that's going to help middlec as the sand hopper appeared after the canal had been built and the building had been demolished with the land having been excavated to create a new connection with the river - compare the before and after maps above. 'IF I COULD ATTRACT DIZZ'S ATTENTION' she may be able to check the 1901 census for River View or the next property (thats,s the building I'm trying to identify) after Leigh Villas. :wink:

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YOU BUGGERS you sent me off on yet another mission when I should have been doing other things.

 

Algy are you sure your photo taken showing the building was taken in 1891 ? I spent over two hours last night looking at told maps and census records and didn’t get very far really which is frustrating.

 

My reason for asking is that the building you ask about looks like the rear of the larger 3 story end terrace house which still stands next to the Spar shop on Ellesmere but try as I might I can't find it or any others there on the 1891 census although of course it could have been build just after the census was taken. I’m definitely not paying £8 to download the land registry records for you though ha ha.

 

The bigger house is attached to one row of terraces made up of Cliffe View and Hawthorne Terrace both of which have plaques showing they were built 1894.

 

The owner/occupier of the 3 storey house in 1901/1911 and subsequent years was a Mr William Allanson and his rather large family. It was originally called No.1 Cliff View, Ellesmere although it’s now No 132 Elles. I guess once they built all the other houses in between the existing older ones at either end of Ellesmere houses it got a bit confusing so they had to re-number.

 

Anway….although only a joiner by profession and living by his own means in 1901/1911 he is down as a leaseholder of the land on quite a few of the later houses around here with ground rent payable accordingly (‘apparently’ as none has been collected for many many years and no-one know who is responsible now).

 

From the photo things do seem a little out of proportion though (if that is the right word) with the Church seeming much closer and much bigger than it actually is from the location the photo was taken from as was often the case with old photo’s and somewhat misleading to the eye as you know, ‘cos you told me ha ha.

 

This makes me even more sure that it is the rear of the house(s) although the large flat building to the right of it did confuse me but maybe what we can see which looks like one large stand alone building but is in fact one normal size terrace with the flat sided more squared 3 storey one being built or extended upwards on the right.

 

The big mound of earth intrigued me a little though and I presumed it was earth dug out of the canal. Is it ?

 

But I am now having pondered over you pic for so long I am aware of some info that may interest you …..

 

A nearby house is known as being the residence of what appears to have been a 'servant' of some sort who was very obsessive. No other members of the house seem to be mentioned in detail anywhere which is slightly odd but that could be due to the servant’s dominance. It appears that the house became somewhat rundown and that the servant was threatened with punishment if ‘she’ did not do as instructed and do the job she was there for rather than doing tasks for other people.

 

Anyway ‘she’ got a little bid disgruntled and started to loose the plot as she could not overcome her obsessions so to cover her back she started to rid the area of anyone who knew what she was really doing each day whilst her employer though she was doing something else. Had they spilled the beans she would without doubt find herself out on a limb and severely punished. :shock:

 

When I say 'rid' she really did 'rid' as legend has it that one by one, slowly but surely over quite some time, she buried them all under a big mound of earth which grew and grew in size. She was a bit canny really as due to building work works in the area at the time with the digging of the canal etc not one person questioned the ever growing mound of earth.

 

Makes you wonder what ‘could’ be lurking under the modern day mounds of earth around here soon :unsure::P:wink:

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My contact on other side of the canal couldn't help with this one, but did think along similar lines as you Dizzy, that it could be buildings on Ellesmere Road (canal side of road, end of houses near Spar shop). It's perhaps the angle and photo perspective that's a bit misleading when we try to fit the image into what is there today.

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Dizz, middlec, I must apologies I sent you on a 'wild goose chase' Dizz, I asked you to look at the 1901 Census when I should have said 1891 Census Oooops! Sorry, :oops: the date I gave the photo was correct and taken just before the canal was excavated so 1891 is a realistic date. The building can't be near the Spar shop as the position of the building would have been more or less behind the cut in by Naylor's wharf, a few hundred metres north of the canal, also the building would have disappeared by 1894 and Ellesmere road wasn't there before the canal was built, but thanks to both of you for your effort, much appreciated.

Nice story about the evil servant though Dizz, hadn't heard that one before.

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:oops::oops::oops: Oooh 'eck, Errrm, the bit about the servant was a joke Algy and I thought you would get it. Might leave it on though as it may become a good old local tale in years to come :lol:

 

I'm just re-reading your last post a few more times to make sure I get what you mean as I'm confusing myself again now :blink:

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:oops::oops::oops: Oooh 'eck, Errrm, the bit about the servant was a joke Algy and I thought you would get it. Might leave it on though as it may become a good old local tale in years to come :lol:

 

I'm just re-reading your last post a few more times to make sure I get what you mean as I'm confusing myself again now :blink:

Dizz, don't worry I have confused myself with this one, seemingly what is now the Greenall's Avenue area was then the main Warrington to Chester road and Leigh Villas and the property that I am interested in were both on the side of that Chester Road, also it was not as I first thought in Stockton Heath, at the time prior to the Canal being built, that area was in the Parish of Walton Inferior, as you are aware, now called Lower Walton.

Hope I have not confused you more. :wink::D :grin:

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Bugger I wish I'd read that half an hour ago Algy as it would have stopped me superimposing the 1877 and 1882 maps over each other which both show your building.

 

I first looked at every page of the 1891 whole census return for Walton Superior and Inferior and also the 'inferior' split of St Johns Evangelist and St Thomas' and then 'walked' the route and established like you that the old road was called Chester Road (not to be confused with todays Chester Road of course for anyone else who may be daft like us and is still reading all this).

 

The Stag Inn is on Chester Road in 1891 as were Leigh Villas and stupidly I thought Leigh Villas were the Ellesmere terraces near Stockton Heath swing bridge.

UNTIL I SUPERIMPOSED THE MAPS... Eurika.

 

Your building was definately slap bang where the water inlet from the MS Canal into the Walton Lock area is now.

 

Here's my superimposed 1877(or was it 1882?) and 1896 maps although you've probably done the same anyway as you are the map king :oops:

 

overlayedmaps-1.jpg

 

Census update in a sec cos someones knocking on the door :roll:

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1891 Census has

 

schedule 83 - The Stag Inn, Chester Road

 

schedule 84 - (no number) Chester Road, Martha Burgeth widow (+4 family)

 

schedule 85 - " " , John Heesom - Brewer (+ wife)

 

schedule 86 - " " , William H Owen - Brewer (+ 9 family)

 

schedule 87 - " " , John Str??? - Masons Laborour

 

schedule 88 - " " , Joseph Moss - Joiner (+ 12 family)

 

schedule 89 - " " . Thomas Miller

 

schedule 90 - " " , Leigh Villa

 

schedule 91 - " " , Leigh Villa

 

schedule 92 - " " , Leigh Villa

 

schedule 93 - New Road, Rose Cottage - Peter Caldwell - spade manufacturer

 

schedules 94 to 99 - New Road

 

schedule 100 - Walton House

 

schedules 101 to 105 - Turf Pits

 

schedules 106 - 119 Lawrinsons? Brew/Brow ???

 

schedule 120 - Red Lane

 

*** end of Walton Inferior St Thomas' parish

schedule

 

I'n not sure that any of this will help though cos if it was say a business premises and nobidy lived there it wont be on the census anyway, but you did ask me to look :wink:

 

Odd that there are only 3 schedule returns for Leigh Villa's though as there look to mre houses than 3 on the maps :unsure:

 

I'll look at the 1881 and 1871 census returns in a jiffy as they may have different stuff.

 

PS Algy if you look at the free 1881 one don't just search Chester Road and view the returned ones as it doesn't come up with them all (well it didn't with 1891).

 

Search on Chester Road, (Walton Inferior) then go to one record and view that house original hand written census. Then click to look at all the previous hand written returns before that one until you get the covering sheet. Then go through each page forward again looking for any on C Road and past the one you started with right to the end writing them down. :blink::wink:

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1891 Census has

 

schedule 83 - The Stag Inn, Chester Road

 

schedule 84 - (no number) Chester Road, Martha Burgeth widow (+4 family)

 

schedule 85 - " " , John Heesom - Brewer (+ wife)

 

schedule 86 - " " , William H Owen - Brewer (+ 9 family)

 

schedule 87 - " " , John Str??? - Masons Laborour

 

schedule 88 - " " , Joseph Moss - Joiner (+ 12 family)

 

schedule 89 - " " . Thomas Miller

 

schedule 90 - " " , Leigh Villa

 

schedule 91 - " " , Leigh Villa

 

schedule 92 - " " , Leigh Villa

 

schedule 93 - New Road, Rose Cottage - Peter Caldwell - spade manufacturer

 

schedules 94 to 99 - New Road

 

schedule 100 - Walton House

 

schedules 101 to 105 - Turf Pits

 

schedules 106 - 119 Lawrinsons? Brew/Brow ???

 

schedule 120 - Red Lane

 

*** end of Walton Inferior St Thomas' parish

schedule

 

I'n not sure that any of this will help though cos if it was say a business premises and nobidy lived there it wont be on the census anyway, but you did ask me to look :wink:

 

Odd that there are only 3 schedule returns for Leigh Villa's though as there look to mre houses than 3 on the maps :unsure:

 

I'll look at the 1881 and 1871 census returns in a jiffy as they may have different stuff.

 

PS Algy if you look at the free 1881 one don't just search Chester Road and view the returned ones as it doesn't come up with them all (well it didn't with 1891).

 

Search on Chester Road, (Walton Inferior) then go to one record and view that house original hand written census. Then click to look at all the previous hand written returns before that one until you get the covering sheet. Then go through each page forward again looking for any on C Road and past the one you started with right to the end writing them down. :blink::wink:

Dizz, have you a link to the 1881 census, I use the one on Family Search, sounds as if yours is a better set up. :unsure:

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Use www.findmypast.co.uk but it will probably just show you the same as the FS one.

 

I just logged out of mine and although it does say it's free and it will show you all the people in the houses etc it wont actually let you view the original hand written census. I didn't realise sorry :oops:

 

You can access FMP and the records all for free at the library though.

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Use www.findmypast.co.uk but it will probably just show you the same as the FS one.

 

I just logged out of mine and although it does say it's free and it will show you all the people in the houses etc it wont actually let you view the original hand written census. I didn't realise sorry :oops:

 

You can access FMP and the records all for free at the library though.

Thanks for the info', a chap on Rootschat found me the name William Jeffs b 1861 who was living in Leigh villas in 1881, went on Family Search and it came up William Jeffs b 1861 Warburton clk'd the name and it opened up the 1881 census for Leigh Villas, wish I could say it has resolved it , but it hasn't. :blink::unsure:

 

Heres Leigh Villas and Tom Paine's Bridge on the Old Quay canal.

 

LeighVillasadjoiningTomPainesBridgeontheOldQuaycanal.jpg

 

TomPainesbridgeknockeddownontheOldQuaycanalbuildingtheManchesterShipCanal.jpg

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:unsure::unsure: Errm Ok.

 

May I politely ask why you are now looking for some chap called William Jeffs b 1861 who lived in Leigh Villas in 1881 :unsure:

 

Your building isn't Leigh Villas Algy... yours is the one that was knocked down as it sat where the inlet is from the MSC to Walton inlet dock. Did you see my overlayed map ?

 

Or am I just missing something again :lol:

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1881 census

 

Schedule 15 ' Legh Villas cut and paste of transcript.

 

JEFFS, William Head Single M 20 1861 - Retired Farmer - Head - born Warburton Cheshire

 

JEFFS, Emily Sister Single F 17 1864 - Retired Farmer - Sister - born Warburton

Cheshire

 

JEFFS, Alice Sister Single F 15 1866 - Retired Farmer - Sister - born Warburton

Cheshire

scheule 14 and 16 say Chester Road not Legh Villas.

 

Note.... It could say Tanner rather than Farmer as the transcripts are often wrong as the two words look similar (all my lot were tanners and many were traancribeb as farmers.

 

Got to pick my laddo up now so will look at the origs later if there is a reason you need this chap. :P

 

Whichever though... why on earth do they all say 'retired' as they are only very young.

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1881 census

 

Schedule 15 ' Legh Villas cut and paste of transcript.

 

JEFFS, William Head Single M 20 1861 - Retired Farmer - Head - born Warburton Cheshire

 

JEFFS, Emily Sister Single F 17 1864 - Retired Farmer - Sister - born Warburton

Cheshire

 

JEFFS, Alice Sister Single F 15 1866 - Retired Farmer - Sister - born Warburton

Cheshire

scheule 14 and 16 say Chester Road not Legh Villas.

 

Note.... It could say Tanner rather than Farmer as the transcripts are often wrong as the two words look similar (all my lot were tanners and many were traancribeb as farmers.

 

Got to pick my laddo up now so will look at the origs later if there is a reason you need this chap. :P

 

Whichever though... why on earth do they all say 'retired' as they are only very young.

Dizz, The object of the exercise was to find out what the building was!.

I wasn't looking specifically for William Jeffs, I was just needing a name at that point in Chester Road hoping that once I had found someone in the 1881 census I could then scroll along the pages using the next or previous household button. I would have settled for 'Donald Duck. as long as he lived in Leigh Villas. In the Family Search 1881 it says he lives in Leigh Villas, Walton Inferior, Cheshire, England.

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