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Steve Parish
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English Heritage have been looking at revising the national listed buildings list where buildings have been destroyed. They looked at de-listing the Fishmarket, which was originally listed along with the Market Hall. It's my ward so I was advised, and I got all-party agreement for the Council to oppose this. EH have decided to keep it Grade II. I'm not aware it was under any threat anyway. EH say:

 

The statutory criteria for a building being included on the List are that it holds special architectural or historic interest. In order for a building to be removed from the list, it needs to be clear that the building no longer has special architectural or historic interest in the national context. An assessment of whether a building should remain on the statutory list must, as a starting point, consider the degree of loss or alteration to the building since its list description was compiled, and whether any loss or alteration detracts sufficiently from the special interest of the building to justify its exclusion. While it is the case that the main subject of the original listing has been demolished, the fish market building retains its own architectural merit and compares favourably with designated examples of a similar type. The fish markets in Preston, Lancashire (early-C20, Grade II) and Plymouth (1896, Grade II) although slightly more ornate, are of a similar design and are later than the Warrington example. Although the Warrington example has had its cladding removed since the time of listing, rather than being a detrimental alteration this has restored the structure to its original character. Fish markets, more so than other markets, required a space which was easily washed down and well ventilated; an open structure is therefore a characteristic feature of this building type. Historic photographs also indicate the stalls were temporary rather than fixed; these have not therefore been ‘lost’. The fish market is therefore a little-altered and good example of its type when considered in the national context.

 

One of the original reasons for designation was the assertion that, ‘All the listed buildings in the Market Place form a group with the side façade of Ye Olde Barley Mow Public House in Market Street’. The relationship between the fish market and Ye Olde Barley Mow remains intact; this group value therefore continues to be an additional source of historic interest. Although the main market has been demolished, the fish market remains in-situ and retains its special interest. It should therefore remain on the statutory list. The list description should however be updated to reflect the building as exists today.

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English Heritage have been looking at revising the national listed buildings list where buildings have been destroyed. They looked at de-listing the Fishmarket, which was originally listed along with the Market Hall. It's my ward so I was advised, and I got all-party agreement for the Council to oppose this. EH have decided to keep it Grade II. I'm not aware it was under any threat anyway.

Although the main market has been demolished, the fish market remains in-situ and retains its special interest. It should therefore remain on the statutory list. The list description should however be updated to reflect the building as exists today.[/font][/size]

Steve, Thanks for the information it's good to know that a small yet significant part of the towns history is being retained, at least for the time being, so much of our historical heritage has been demolished, we can ill afford to have any more taken from us.

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A very interesting post Steve Parish and well done for getting all-party agreement to oppose it.

 

Algy and Wireboy have already said what I was about to say so no need to repeat.

 

I had no idea it had been under threat of de-listing but as that was clearly the case shouldn't the public have been advised too ?

 

Thank goodness it had group value on it's side though and that you took an interest as may have been a different story and if there had been no council interest would it have been to late for people to object ince they found out about it's delisting :shock: I guess it might have been.

 

Is there any way of finding out which other listed buildings or structures within Warrington may also be earmarked for de-listing as not everyone would do what you did :unsure:

 

thanks

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makes a nice change that the council are party to an old building being saved.... mind you, one open metal structure doesn't let them off the hook (fish market joke in there too....) for the likes of the Baths, Bewsey Old Hall, the old Boteler Grammar School etc. etc....

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I did wonder about "going public" - EH only consult owners and local authorities - but frankly it didn't seem something to get people excited about as a change in its listed status seemed unlikely. EH would not be interested in general "save our heritage" campaigns. As EH are not democratically accountable, public opinion isn't high on their radar, or - as they put it - "It is important to note that we can only consider comments on the special architectural or historic interest of a building". It's a judgement call, but believe me, you wouldn't want to know about everything that councillors are expected to know about!

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Ooooh Steve, it was all going so well until that last comment..."but believe me, you wouldn't want to know about everything that councillors are expected to know about!"

 

That sort of gives a bit of a whiff of "...... I won't bother trying to explain myself or my fellow councillors actions to the plebs because it is too complex for them to understand...."

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Ooooh Steve, it was all going so well until that last comment..."but believe me, you wouldn't want to know about everything that councillors are expected to know about!"

 

That sort of gives a bit of a whiff of "...... I won't bother trying to explain myself or my fellow councillors actions to the plebs because it is too complex for them to understand...."

 

 

Perhaps he has to clear it with "Archie" like Geoff Settle has to :lol:

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Well, Baz, if your opening salvo in the "let's vote against every sitting councillor" thread is "banter", I'd hate to see you in full attack mode. And no, my comment that "you wouldn't want to know about everything that councillors are expected to know about" wasn't intended to convey any wish to avoid transparency, but just to indicate that there's a bit of a snowstorm of information, and I'd suggest that a lot of it would be of little general interest. But if you do want to indulge, most of it is in committee reports to be found on the website committee agenda system.

 

As to this thread - I posted to show a bit of all-party agreement on something that I thought would interest those concerned for heritage issues, but you could have remained oblivious to a story that was essentially "Routine English Heritage review of listed buildings means nothing changes" (which as a storyline probably is on a par with the Hertfordshire newspaper's famous backpage headline, "JOE ROYLE NOT FOR LUTON").

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Well, Baz, if your opening salvo in the "let's vote against every sitting councillor" thread is "banter", I'd hate to see you in full attack mode. And no, my comment that "you wouldn't want to know about everything that councillors are expected to know about" wasn't intended to convey any wish to avoid transparency, but just to indicate that there's a bit of a snowstorm of information, and I'd suggest that a lot of it would be of little general interest. But if you do want to indulge, most of it is in committee reports to be found on the website committee agenda system.

 

As to this thread - I posted to show a bit of all-party agreement on something that I thought would interest those concerned for heritage issues, but you could have remained oblivious to a story that was essentially "Routine English Heritage review of listed buildings means nothing changes" (which as a storyline probably is on a par with the Hertfordshire newspaper's famous backpage headline, "JOE ROYLE NOT FOR LUTON").

 

I wonder if that will shut em' up, I doubt it! :wink:

 

Also wondering what PMSL stands for Cleo, I presume the PMS means, Pre-menstrual Syndrome, a condition which incidentally, most attached males of my age will be experts on, but what the Hell does 'L' stand for?. :unsure:

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I wonder if that will shut em' up, I doubt it! :wink:

 

Also wondering what PMSL stands for Cleo, I presume the PMS means, Pre-menstrual Syndrome, a condition which incidentally, most attached males of my age will be experts on, but what the Hell does 'L' stand for?. :unsure:

 

 

PMSL = peeing my self laughing (the more polite version) :lol::lol::lol:

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Well, Baz, if your opening salvo in the "let's vote against every sitting councillor" thread is "banter", I'd hate to see you in full attack mode.

 

(It was actually the third paragraph.....but never mind!!)

 

Steve, I applaud your honesty and your guts to come back and defend your words.... I am sure there are quite a lot of things that most members of the general public would not want to see; it was the fact you said that which would make some a little taken aback....if you said nothing; ignorance is bliss as they say!!

 

The all party agreement is a nice and rare thing to see in our council but I feel sure that you may not be so forward to write about things which do not have all party backing..... unless it is to do with butterfly counting or litter picking.... :D

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