wolfie Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Happens at every game I go to, both home and away. The Scottish FA have given the green light to standing areas at SPL football stadiums. How much longer before the Premier League follows suit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andygill Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 I agree standing should be reintroduced. However it is illegal in England to stand at top flight games so the law would need to change first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianR Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 I disagree. I was at Hillsborough and standing was deemed unsafe for a reason. The volume of people can get out of control very easily and cannot be as organised as when seated. Yes its safe at certain levels because of capacity issues or volume etc but in stadia holding upwards of 45000 then it becomes dangerously uncontrollable. Never mind the comfort issues etc. Also do you think EPL clubs will charge less to stand or rather rake in £70+ for a seat? Standign used to be about 1/3rd the cost of a seat. Also there is the investment needed to change back to terraces. Simply removing the seats wont be enough. Sorry but not a good idea at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted February 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Yes its safe at certain levels because of capacity issues or volume etc but in stadia holding upwards of 45000 then it becomes dangerously uncontrollable. There's only 4 teams in the Premiership with an average attendance above 45000, wherehas the average in Germany is way higher, and standing at matches is not an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 You can all come and stand at Warrington Town any time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianR Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 The density in Germany I understand is the benefit i.e. low density standign areas. Also UEFA wont let them use them for european games and they then revert them to seating areas (novel way I must admit) I just think the cash cow that is the EPL wont change back and safety will eb used. SPL clubs are skint o i can pershaps understand the idea but not the justification particulary as Rangers have had their own past issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted February 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 Apparantly, the German system works very well and IMO a properly controlled standing area would actually be safer than having rows of unused seats with fans standing and jumping up and down, ( in City's case facing the wrong way). As I mentioned in my first post, it happens anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianR Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 I disagree. The problem with standing crowds is when packed in they behave like a liquid and move like such. With only limited crush barriers, the crowd literally flows round them causing an incresed crush elsewhere. If pens are adopted, there is nowhere for this to be relieved and thats when serious trouble starts. With seating you have a defined area around you and no possibility of the build up of pressure. The german model is based roughly on the equivalent space used for a seat being used for 1 standing occupant. As you however are standing, the value of that space drops. If you try to cram more in to solve the drop in income then you generate the above problem. How many clubs are going to rip out seats and replace them with convertable standing / sitting areas when there will be no economic benefit in doing so? Egypt last night was reminder of what can happen in a football stadium regardles of design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted February 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Egypt last night was reminder of what can happen in a football stadium regardles of design. Standing or sitting would have made no difference to what happened in Egypt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Undoubtatbly true from what I have seen on the news reports. TRULLY SHOCKING !! The sight of the chap sitting at the news table on the El-ahly football channel with his head in his hands as a fan begged for help sort of said it all really just as the hearbreaking pictures of coffins being carried with those who lost their lives at what was supposed to be a football match have done too. What on earth is the world coming to AGAIN !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted February 2, 2012 Report Share Posted February 2, 2012 Where's Cleopatra? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 Fear not Peter, Cleo has surfaced again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 why on earth would anyone want to go and stand with a bunch of sweaty blokes on a cold January night in Scarborough watching 22 equally sweaty blokes running round like a bunch of nancys for 90 minutes.....???? Surely the best way; if you must watch football, is from the comfort of your own living room; with beer, toilet, pause button etc....all to hand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted February 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 When was Scarborough last on tv? :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 When was Scarborough last on tv? :unsure: Go easy on him, he's a Man Ure fan so obviously not very knowledgeable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 I admit that my knowledge of football is somewhat limited, however at school, I was more intersted in girls than football. A far more useful hobby!! .... and football isn't more important than life or death..... only some saddos really think it is!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P J Posted February 3, 2012 Report Share Posted February 3, 2012 I admit that my knowledge of football is somewhat limited, however at school, I was more intersted in girls than football. A far more useful hobby!! .... and football isn't more important than life or death..... only some saddos really think it is!! Strange given you went to an all boys school Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 Maybe they had dressing up boxes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
algy Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 Maybe they had dressing up boxes We had cricket boxes at our school!, it was a full term before anyone told me they weren't for protecting your nose. :grin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted February 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 We had cricket boxes at our school!, it was a full term before anyone told me they weren't for protecting your nose. :grin: Come off it alg the first cricket box wasn't invented until 1874, way after you were in school :wink: Mind you the first cricket helmet was only used in 1974. It took 100 years to realize that the brain is also important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted February 6, 2012 Report Share Posted February 6, 2012 It took 100 years to realize that the brain is also important. Anyone informed the politicians???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asperity Posted February 8, 2012 Report Share Posted February 8, 2012 Naaaah, wouldn't penetrate their thick skulls anyway :smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disgusted Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 I disagree. The problem with standing crowds is when packed in they behave like a liquid and move like such. With only limited crush barriers, the crowd literally flows round them causing an incresed crush elsewhere. If pens are adopted, there is nowhere for this to be relieved and thats when serious trouble starts. With seating you have a defined area around you and no possibility of the build up of pressure. The german model is based roughly on the equivalent space used for a seat being used for 1 standing occupant. As you however are standing, the value of that space drops. If you try to cram more in to solve the drop in income then you generate the above problem. How many clubs are going to rip out seats and replace them with convertable standing / sitting areas when there will be no economic benefit in doing so? Egypt last night was reminder of what can happen in a football stadium regardles of design. Lot of ill-informed stuff there Adrian, we'll start by showing you the german seating design that converts to a standing area, and the one that is being suggested for use in Scotland if it gets the go-ahead As you can see, the idea is to sell one ticket per seat as if a seat was still in-situ, but for domestic games the seats will be folded up flat, so every row will have its own crush barrier. No 'flow' of a crowd at all. The German model has proved that economically it works, becasue more fans are going to games, as standing is a better experience, and helps create a better atmosphere. Clubs in Scotland will, just like the Germans, becasue there will be an economic benefit. Other than the bigots, and in England the top 3 or 4 teams, nowhere sells out regularly. The customers want it, crowds and interest are dropping, so give the customer what they want. Finally, as you say, moments like what happened in Egypt would happen anyway, not sure why you added that, as it sure has nothing to do with seating/standing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfie Posted February 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 so give the customers what they want Exactly.works in Germany and will work in Scotland, and supporters of every Premiership club in England want it, as can be seen every week at any stadium, including Liverpool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianR Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Perhaps my personal experience of when it goes wrong affects my opinion, however it still means 1 seat = 1 standing and you are reliant on getting more through the door to offset the loss in revenue presuming that a standing game will be charged less than a seated game. Actually with the photo example, I suspect that they wont be and you'll get charged the same. There still has to be considered the cost of installation. I can undertand it if a club is moving stadia, rebuilding a stand to put these in, but cannot see an existing stadia changing to them especially if they have full or near full stadia anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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