Cleopatra Posted December 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 YO, I don't give a fig for what you read about prefrontal lobes. I base my opinions on true life, my observations and experiences with many young people, and they tell me that young people aged 10 to 14 are aware of the difference between right and wrong! On one hand we have the young criminals in the making, on the other hand we have the good kids, who know it is wrong to steal and do damage and swear etc.,. These kids have prefrontal lobes too, most probably at the same stage of development yet they know right from wrong and never get into trouble and are a credit to their parent/s. I have 17 grandchildren and, like their parents did, they know the difference between right and wrong by the age of 5 or 6. Why, because they were taught the difference by their parents as well as me and my husband. Our little 2 year old grandson is on the way to learning too. He is not beyond helping himelf to anything he wants but he always brings it to us for our approval or disapproval. We are very proud of each and every one of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Tessla Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 YO, I don't give a fig for what you read about prefrontal lobes. I know - all that science nonsense , gets in the way of "common sense" doesn't it it's also obvious the sun goes round the earth isn't it? Our "observations and experiences" show us that It is not neccesarily about "knowing" the difference between "right and wrong", but being able to exercise judgment and control impulses in situations where there is a choice between courses of action. Oh and . by the way, prefrontal lobes exist in "true life" and there is scientific evidence for their function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted December 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Oh and . by the way, prefrontal lobes exist in "true life". Exactly YO! And I don't disagree but after all is said and done every child has them but not every child behaves in the same manner because not every parent bothers to train their children or trains them in accordance with their own standard and I will insist, no matter what you say to the contrary, that every child (unless brain damaged or mentally impaired) is capable of knowing the difference between right and wrong by the age of 10 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Tessla Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Oh and . by the way, prefrontal lobes exist in "true life". Exactly YO! And I don't disagree but after all is said and done every child has them but not every child behaves in the same manner because not every parent bothers to train their children or trains them in accordance with their own standard and I will insist, no matter what you say to the contrary, that every child (unless brain damaged or mentally impaired) is capable of knowing the difference between right and wrong by the age of 10 years. As I said "It is not neccesarily about "knowing" the difference between "right and wrong", but being able to exercise judgment and control impulses in situations where there is a choice between courses of action." Re your comment that "that every child (unless brain damaged or mentally impaired) is capable of knowing the difference between right and wrong by the age of 10 years." You seem to qualify this with "not every parent bothers to train their children " So should a child with a "bad" parent not be given some leeway, as they do not know the difference between "right and wrong" ? I would point out that it you who has opened this particular can of words -(the one marked "blame the parents" )not me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleopatra Posted December 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 So I opened it. I didn't need reminding. But my opinion remaons the same. "So should a child with a "bad" parent not be given some leeway, as they do not know the difference between "right and wrong" ?" Now you are approaching the real cause of kids with behaviour problems - the parents. IMO parents should be held responsible for their kids until they become of age, as in days gone by, and be made to pay for their kids wrong doing! You may well see a decline in underage crime then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry hayes Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Again, too draconian Cleo. As a general rule, when it is clear that the parent can cope and doesn't care, punish them. but there are too many disadvantaged - sick; one parent; etc; - about. Stallard refers to my old thinking but read the bible or any newspaper of any age, and they all bemoan "the youth of today". Human behaviour does not change. Environments do. I agree that the parents in the main, are to blame, but it is at least two generations who have allowed us to sink. The stble door has been left open and too many stock have escaped into the wild. Slamming the door shut is not the answer. "every journey starts with the first step". Bring back one caution and you are out. Let the home office reverse some of their directives to magistrates and suggest the use more appropriate punishments. One of the first duties of police is "prevention of crime" - where has that gone?. Let adults behave with more decorum. Ian Duncan Smith has a point in saying that dependency on the state may be unhealthy - can that easily be adjusted? I feel that again, it is something to be sorted out slowly rather than by swingeing methods. There is little wrong with the youth of today. They are subject to enormous pressures , particularly from the media, which no other generation has experienced. If proper examples were set, everyone would benefit Happy days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter T Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 There is little wrong with the youth of today. They are subject to enormous pressures , particularly from the media, which no other generation has experienced. If proper examples were set, everyone would benefit Happy days So we just accept things the way they are? or bring back some standards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry hayes Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 Peter, thought I had clearly said that we should make improvements slowly., and indeed suggested a few aids. Bit like the national debt. It's got altogether too big. Impossible to pay it all off in one fell swoop, but pay back what is due in interest , plus a bit more. Happy days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 14, 2011 Report Share Posted December 14, 2011 One employer on a news prog about the rise in youth unemployment, said that "some kids won't even get out of bed to attend an interview"! Apart from there being few or no jobs anyway; what intrigues me, is how even a youngster can live on £60pw - must be the parents that are keeping them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Well my tupence worth is that personally I would have hung Venebles and Thompson.... under-developed lobes and all. There were evil then and they still are evil now (hence the reason one of the scum is back behind bars) There would have been an outcry and a bit of hand- wringing and soul searching, but at the end of the day, there would have been two less murderers in this country breathing the same air as good decent people and we would't still be paying millions to keep them out of the limelight.... Just my opinion, but there you go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Well my tupence worth is that personally I would have hung Venebles and Thompson.... under-developed lobes and all. They were evil then and they still are evil now (hence the reason one of the scum is back behind bars) There would have been an outcry and a bit of hand- wringing and soul searching, but at the end of the day, there would have been two less murderers in this country breathing the same air as good decent people and we would't still be paying millions to keep them out of the limelight.... Just my opinion, but there you go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Tessla Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 Well my tupence worth is that personally I would have hung Venebles and Thompson.... under-developed lobes and all. There were evil then and they still are evil now (hence the reason one of the scum is back behind bars) There would have been an outcry and a bit of hand- wringing and soul searching, but at the end of the day, there would have been two less murderers in this country breathing the same air as good decent people and we would't still be paying millions to keep them out of the limelight.... Just my opinion, but there you go You would kill two children - for "my tupence worth" if you mean you personally could do this then I have to wonder about your own psychological state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 hanging by a thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazj Posted December 15, 2011 Report Share Posted December 15, 2011 You would kill two children - for "my tupence worth" if you mean you personally could do this then I have to wonder about your own psychological state. Oh here we go.... bleating about killing two children.... They are/were murderers pure and simple Nick. They aren't/weren't children they are/were evil monsters and deserved the ultimate punishment for what they did. They knew all too well what they were doing when they took the child from the shopping centre and iknew all too well what they were doing when they killed him and poured paint into his mouth and all the other evil things they did. Maybe the bit about hanging them at ten was a bit harsh; I would have waited until they were 18 and then done it. I have no problem with the state executing murderers and if you would care to read some of my past posts you will see one of the reasons why Unfortunately Nick... doo-goody, huggy huggy liberal attitudes like yours are one of the reasons why a lot of "first time murderers" are released and become "second time murderers" We lock them up, feed them, clothe them and then unleash them on society for a second go. Venebles was arrested for downloading and viewing child porn... he may well have gone on to abduct another child and done the same as he did to young Bulger.... Oh and have you ever actually read the transcripts of what Venebles and Thompson did to Jamie Bulger?.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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