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Freedom?


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We pride ourselves on being " a free Country", we will commemorate on Sunday the ultimate sacrifice of succesive generations to retain that precious freedom. Now, if freedom includes the freedom of expression, however despicable and nauseating, should such freedom include the burning of poppies and membership of an extreme political grouping? :unsure:

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Cleo, the question is a valid question because it does encompass a lot of "uncomfortable truths" which go with having a so called "free society" In fact the same question was asked on Question Time last night....

 

I would look at it this way, do you think that the soldiers who died and paid the "ultimate Sacrifice" in say WW1, if they could be "asked" face to face, would agree that they died so that people could desicrate the very thing that commemorates their and their friends' sacrifices.....

 

I suspect the answer would be a 100% "NO"

 

The servicemen of WW1 and WW2 died to protect their freedoms and those of us in the subsequent generations, but as I have put above; even those freedoms must have some restrictions in order to promote the freedoms of the vast majority

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The "ban" isn't on "burning poppies" apparently folk are still "free" to do that, although they may get arrested for a public order offence. "The Ban" is on membership of an organisation (Moslems against Crudades), which has had about seven re-births in as many years, by simply just changing the name, which begs the question, would it be better to have such cranks in a known organisation so they can be better monitored by the security services?. It also begs the question as to precisely what are those "boundaries" you talk about Baz, one man's freedom can be another's tyranny? We had a saying as kids - "sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never hurt me" in response to verbal abuse; but it seems that these days, "being offended" by something or other, has been turned into an art form by some. :roll:

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Pardon the pun, but it is not all black and white.

Give people an inch and they will take a yard. Whilst these minority groups such as the PC brigade are allowed to do what they want without the public standing up to them (or the politicians), people can do as they please and quote this that and the other if the native dares to be normal in behaviour and speech.

 

No details, but I know of someone who took offence when my Mother's Doctor asked how she was, and she replied that "she was fed up with all the foreign carers".

The carer was furious according to my wife, and told my wife that it was a racist comment. :roll:

 

 

I thought that anyone not born in the country that they live in or visit, was a foreigner.

It's a factual comment, nothing to do with race. The whole thing has grown out of proportion.

Both Baz and obs are generally correct.

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Cleo.... in Kijes utopia; everyone conforms to the new order of the EU and we aren't allowed to see anyone or anything as being different or out of place.... We are all different from all different countries and occasionally there will be friction for whatever reason due to colour, creed, race religion etc. We just have to try and get on....

 

Unfortunately, you cannot force an old pensioner, who fought in the war to like Germans just because we are told to do so now and not to like them is a form of racism or to tell a Japanese prisoner of war that the Japs are actually quite nice chaps these days....

 

My mum is 89, she is half deaf, blind and cannot walk. If the doctor comes out to her and the doctor happens to be Asian or Indian, she will tell me that the doctor was a lovely "darky".... she isn't being derogatory in her eyes; it is just how she sees it at her age. You will never change those sort of things... best to just nod sweetly and carry on! Personally I would never refer to people in those terms and my son cringes of she says it in front of him.... that is how we have changed over the years

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The PC brigade have abused the word "racism"; hatred of the Japanese for example, whilst motivated (in ex-POWs) by their experiences, could be technically racist, as the Japanese are of a different racial grouping. Hatred of the Germans (due to wartime experiences) cannot be "racist", as they are of the same racial grouping, and thus would be nationalist sentiment rather than racist. :unsure:

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Ahh, you are of the old school of hundreds of years ago. Days long, gone when race was defined by three categories - Negro - Caucasaion - Mongol. Whereas race is actually associated with groups of people united bya a common history, cultural traits, language, etc., i.e. Germans, Dutch, Spanish, Italians, English, Japanese, Chinise, Indian and so on and so forth. All separate races.

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A very important point was made with regards to generation. Over the years, if the schools play their part and the fundamentalists don't blast us to smithereens, a gradual change in attitudes will occur. Anyone who expects it to happen overnight should be voting to bring Winwick back.

 

Perhaps the EU could learn from this. :roll:

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Baz, get real, stop pretending you know what Ithink, sorry I do not fit into your box.

 

Race noun,A definition

 

[C or U] a group, especially of people, with particular similar physical characteristics, who are considered as belonging to the same type, or the fact of belonging to such a group

People of many different races were living side by side.

Discrimination on grounds of race will not be tolerated.

An increasing number of people in the country are of mixed race (= with parents of different races).

• [C + singular or plural verb] a group of people who share the same language, history, characteristics, etc

 

From the on line Cambridge dictionary

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Don't think you realise how absurd your suggestion is Cleo: you can bring a Negro from Africa, send him to Scotland and dress him in a kilt; and even if he can play the bag-pipes, loves haggis and deep fried mars bars; he'll never be a Scotsman, and certainly not a Celt. :roll:

 

Wasn't the last king of Scotland an African? :mellow: :mellow: :mellow:

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