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Obs... I agree with you whole-heartedly but it isn't just the European directives that would be the problem.... in fact that bit I reckon would be the easy bit!


The hard bit would be to get our own MP's to toe the line with what their constituents wanted. How many times in the past have we had votes on capital punishment and; instead of representing the voters, the MP's "vote with their own conscience" and vote against it?


That would be the stumbling block because the MP's that we vote in will not listen to us when it comes to issues like this. Labour have signed all these treaties and constitutions but have done so without a genuine mandate from the voters; most of the voters don't want this European clap trap but none will give us our say


A referendum on corporal and capital punishment is needed as well as a complete ban on early releases and bail for anyone convicted of a violent crime. (Look at the copper who was charged with murder of his wife and the Stupid Stupid judge lets him out to kill again!!) The so-called ringleader of the gang who killed Gary Newlove had only been freed on bail less than 12 hours before they killed the poor bloke, the bloke who killed my wife 18 years ago had been released from jail early so it isn't a new thing but we have to stop it now.... at least it would be a start!


Build the prisons, buy the prison ships, lease the islands off Scotland if that is what it needs but for gods sake lets keep these criminals locked up where they belong and bring back the stick and the rope to deal with them properly

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I feel that the first political party that comes up with a solution to anti social behaviour and was prepared to put it into action would win a general election by a landslide.


Unfortunately with every political party, we have plenty of promises and very little action.

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Exactly.... but everytime something like the Newlove tragedy happens, all we get from the politicians are the usual sound bites... lessons will be learned!! unfortunately the lessons aren't learned because unfortunately the politicians don't listen to the correct teachers!


The youth of today, regardless of what some say, are out of control because no one can touch them to stop them. I am reading the local you know what paper and in there is a piece about a lad from Ellesmere Port who sold or gave cocaine and ecstacy to his mate (from Warrington)and it killed him. He gets 2 years off the Judge.... 2 YEARS??? the lad is a dealer and what does the judge say to him? "I know you never intended ******** ***** to die..." and "Those who supply class A drugs should remember that is something terrible happens the responsibility falls on them!!" This man is a judge for gods sake.... we pay him a hundred grand a year to dish this crap out...


The dealer should have been jailed for LIFE no bloody parole and short sentencing and leniency because his dog had died 3 years earlier.... these dealers are the scourge of our society and if we can't lock them away for good we will never solve half of the issues we are having in our towns.


The lads who killed Gary Newlove had supposedly had drugs before killing him..... where did they get the drugs from?


Why won't our politicians listen to us and what the hell can we do to make them listen? there seems to be no answer because it always seems to me that the liberal softies always seem to get their way and the people like me and many others are shouted down as some kind of barbaric morons. We need punishments to fit the ever increasingly horric crimes but we can't get it because of all the happy clappy brigades.


Any suggestions?


[ 17.01.2008, 21:20: Message edited by: BazJ ]

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It is very true what Baz is saying. The moral standards of everyone in this country have been getting going down for twenty years.

But ... not all youths are bad, the vast majority are very good and will grow up to be fine people.

We do have a small amount who are totally out of control these have been breed off the bad one's of the past and do not give a tosh about themselves are anyone else.

The problem with the government is they like to dabble in sorting it out and never do anything, the judges of this country are so far removed from society that they have not got a clue of what is going on in the world other than what they read in the Times. There was one in Warrington several years ago who would not believe that a prisoner could say 20 words and 18 of them were swear words. We have a lot of the wrong people sitting on the bench, most come from nice middle class families in Appleton rather than the back streets of Dallam, it is to their credit that they do the job but they need to go and stay in a few places other than Appleton and Lymm and see life.

I think that the Russians had the right idea, at night they would go around the street and pick these trouble youths up, many were not seen again but most were put into work camps until they could behave, (20 Years in many cases)

It is no good saying that these youths are part of society because they are not, they have to be taken out of main stream humanity and taught that human way of life has rules and they have broken them. If they do not wish to conform to the rules of humanity then they will not be allowed to live in humanities world.

When are the government going to act? Are we waiting until were have civil disputes and gang v gang v police v vigilante. Because I don?t think that it is far off.

So what is the answer?

There must be an urgent change to the jail system, there are far too many people festering in jail for petty offences, get them out working on community schemes under strict supervision, not a holiday dammed hard work that they don?t want to go back to.

Violent people who want to remain violent get the same treatment, let the punishment fit the crime. The lads on bad lads army did not like the treatment they got and it turned them around in four weeks. Think what you can do in three months. Jail is punishment, not a holiday with colour telly, social workers, three meals a day, best gymnasiums, drink, drugs.

Why is it that people do not want to go back into a Chinese, far east, middle east jails?

Even some of the European countries have strict jail rules that prisoners don?t like.

Judges, magistrates should go and spend at least one month a year living in a deprived area.

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Originally posted by little fella:

the judges of this country are so far removed from society that they have not got a clue of what is going on in the world other than what they read in the Times.

:confused: :confused:


I would have thought that the majority of a Judges week was actually dealing with law breakers and the dregs of society.

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Originally posted by busby:

Originally posted by little fella:

the judges of this country are so far removed from society that they have not got a clue of what is going on in the world other than what they read in the Times.

:confused: :confused:


I would have thought that the majority of a Judges week was actually dealing with law breakers and the dregs of society.

That doesn't mean that they understand the mindset of the people they deal with.

It's like the politicians. Do they live in a real world?

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Originally posted by Peter:

Do they live in a real world?

Seems the odd Judge might, this from the Daily Mail:


A judge has warned that an obsession with rights had created a society "bedevilled by feral youth".


Judge Ian Trigger spoke out amid a wave of anger over the murder of devoted family man Garry Newlove in a vicious gang attack.



He also attacked the policy of releasing violent offenders on bail - the case with the ringleader of the gang who kicked 47-year-old Mr Newlove to death outside his Warrington home.

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Most judges still live in protected accommodation, sort of a 6 star gentleman club. One has recently been opened to the public in Wales, one that they no longer use because it is too old.

There are some very minor ones who live in the community, like Mere Corner or secluded farms in Shropshire but they are not many. They are picked up in the morning that they are working, driven to the court and then reversed to go home.

They don?t whip out to Marks for a sandwich or to do some shopping.

One senior judge a few years ago said that he had never been into a supermarket I would say that most never or rarely go shopping, they are too much at risk and do not have protection officers apart from when they travel to courts.

They do of course see the tele and read the paper but from a life of boarding public school to university a life in chambers and then the secluded life of a judge I would hardly call that having a grip on the social life of Mr Average in the UK.

They maybe very clever people? and also trained in body language but they only get the view of a person sat in front of them in the dock wearing their best suit (maybe) and being on good behaviour because they have too. A social worker will write a report on that person for the court, but ? They will highlight their good points but do not know their criminal record (unless they have many dealing with them) and cannot say if they did.

But it is not the judges job to find them innocent or guilty that is the jury, Now the court is a game between two barristers and witnesses are the playing pieces the judge is their to see fair play. A good barrister can rip a very good witness to pieces and leave them discredited which is good for their client, the other barrister has to do the same. Its not about justice its who is the best barrister. I have very little faith in the crown court system.

Anyone who has sat on a jury or been a witness will know what it is like.

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So, hows about "peoples" courts? :confused: 12 local folk (elected annually), dealing with local cases in their area? :confused: Meanwhile, Police given greater powers to deal with incidents by issueing fixed penalty notices (thus freeing up some court time)? :confused:

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Could be like the Lord of the Manor courts of the past.

They say the wheel keeps turning.

Some of the fundamental rules need changing to deal with these problems.

How about this for troublesome youths ~ A people carrier manned by police and a magistrate on patrol.

Gang of youths causing trouble.

Incident on video tape.

Youths arrested and ordered by the magistrate to detention.

Youths taken to a local reception centre and detained for 1 week.

One week of sever discipline, education and welfare.

If they try to buck the system extra days can be added.


No appeal. No mummy visits. Reoffended and its two weeks and so on. With the right type of staff they would not want to go back more than twice.

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